History of the “WROW Radio: The Dave Lucas Radio Show”

The Internet Subculture and the JonBenet Ramsey Case

November 11, 1998 through May 1, 1999

History of Lance Matthews on the BNF

And The Dave Lucas Radio Shows

by ACandyRose, Saturday, June 15, 2001


The Dave Lucas Radio show was broadcast live via the Internet from station WROW in Albany, New York where scheduled shows covered the Internet subculture and the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation. Dave Lucas met Lance Matthews, an Internet poster and local to the Albany area who became a regular nightly guest host on the shows.

The seven recorded shows that are part of this ACandyRose Internet subculture "Webdollie" series were from December 30, 1998 through March 6, 1999. All real audio files available for this Webdollie web site were recorded off the Internet by ACandyRose (aka AuntieBJ) "as is" via non technical audio equipment setup during the live broadcast of the radio shows. The quality of the recorded shows may very and could contain background sounds unrelated to the recorded radio shows. The recordings were then encoded to real audio by ACandyRose and then split into smaller segments for easy uploading to a server account and for the consideration of those listeners with older PC equipment or WebTv.

The short five month history of the Dave Lucas radio shows that highlighted on the theme following the Internet subculture and the JonBenet Ramsey case surrounded around an Internet poster named Lance Matthews with the first show scheduled for November 11, 1998 and the last show aired on May 1, 1999

There were fifteen shows total that were broadcast between midnight and three o'clock in the morning and offered live interviews from some twenty plus well known authors, journalists, physicians, attorneys, photographers, handwriting experts and even Patsy Ramsey's sister, Pam Paugh. In addition there were some twenty plus Internet posters who called into the show asking questions and participating in interactive discussions with special guests and with each other.

Lance Matthews was a natural and had a good voice as a host for a radio program. In a press release dated December 30, 1998 Dave Lucas quoted, "I thought it would be fascinating concept to do a radio show zeroing in on that Internet subculture. Matthews would be the catalyst since he was well-known in pro and anti- Ramsey chat rooms and news forums." The radio station, WROW got RealAudio up and running but there were problems with the first two shows being received on the Internet. By the third show on December 30th the audio web site was working and the station set up a chat room for visitors on the Internet to communicate with the station hosts, Dave Lucas and Lance Matthews during the shows.

Lance Matthews was also actively promoting J.T. Colfax, a former cell mate from the Boulder County Jail with a "Inmates on the Web" project theme that included the experiment of interactive Internet forum discussions using letters written by Colfax in jail that were mailed to Matthews and in turn, Matthews mailed forum threads and chat logs to Colfax in jail to promote further discussions.

Colfax was still serving the last year of a two year sentence for theft of the sign in log sheet when JonBenet Ramsey was taken to the morgue in December 26, 1996. Colfax was also charged with arson after he turned himself into the Boulder police to confess to a stunt whereas he tried to stuff burning book pages into the Ramsey Boulder house mail slot which Colfax would later described as a desperate solution to other problems he had, both personal and legal during that time in his life.

That "Colfax on the Web" promotional project started in October 1998 by Matthews on the Boulder News Forum known to the Internet community as the BNF, an un-moderated forum comprised of a large membership of opposing groups not just in the pro and anti Ramsey or Colfax groups but those part of various cliques and/or forums in major opposition. The history of the subculture on the forums of those following this case would often include judging others on poster views, friendship with others, classifications of a posters beginnings or whether they were a lurker or active discussion participate and those who represented historical reminders of past flame wars on forums gone by.

Matthews reception on the BNF was not met in good favor by all while some were sympathetic and others felt Matthews was trying to shove Colfax down their throats. In the meantime Matthews sought the aid of a major forum owner to develop and maintain a web site on the Tripod server to house the Colfax's legal documents, stories and inmate letters.

By November 11, 1998, Matthews took Colfax to the airwaves via the Dave Lucas Radio show out of Albany, New York with his first show and a second show scheduled for December 23nd. By this time though a great amount of infighting known to the Internet community as "flaming" was occurring on the BNF between those members and members of a rival forum known as WebbSleuths that was owned by a poster named Murphy and moderated by another named Jameson.

J.T. Colfax, still in the Boulder County jail, became a target of these attacks on the BNF as part of his association with Matthews who in no short terms was creating some major hostility between posters from both forums where he started out on one end of the fence and then jumped to the other side while still playing both sides in addition to what many felt was instigating flaming between some posters and forums.

Matthews, on the other hand felt he was doing nothing wrong and that posters were just attacking him. Some posters felt Matthews association with a poster under the hat of "Gsquared," was a major wrong move and that association would prove to be fatal to both parties on the BNF in the months following because of past history poster war issues unrelated to Colfax.

By the December 23nd radio show, Matthews had let his position be known on which side of the fence he was on when he introduced Jameson as his special guest, another move that would prove to be fatal. Matthews was treading on very thin ice trying to balance his new interest in Jameson, a poster whom others had extensive historical hostile attitudes toward.

When the forum owner of Justice Watch, who created the J.T. Colfax web site informed Matthews that she could no longer help him he contacted me to maintain the site and I declined the offer. Matthews then sought the help of another poster under the hat of "Wiltonjr" who become the new webmaster. Wilton and Jameson were on the outs also since that previous summer and Matthews major mix and match of friends from different hostile groups was one of his downfalls on the BNF and with Matthews went his girlfriend, Lisa Flowers and Colfax.

The Dave Lucas radio shows were expanding into new directions beyond just the Internet subculture into live shows with guest such as Pam Paugh, Patsy Ramsey's sister, Andrew Hodges, Darney Hoffman as well as guest appearance by Linda McLean who authored, "JonBenet's Mother, The Tragedy and the Truth."

The December 30th show also had Richard Fleming, Editor of the Boulder Weekly and Justin Mitchell, an independent reporter and of course Jameson and her timeline, who Matthews repeatedly introduced and promoted as the authority on the case and Dave Lucas literally sold her timeline during air time as the archive record of the case history. Jameson's new notority as the archivist of the case, per Matthews and Dave Lucas, was not an opinion shared by a large percent of the Internet community.

The straw that broke the camels back on the BNF forum and would be considered an answer to the question Matthews asked so often as to "who drew first blood" on the BNF can be found on the January 1, 1999 Dave Lucas Radio show. Matthews had been heckled that if the show was to be about the Internet subculture then how come he didn't have the subculture on the show so he announced that the January 1st show would be just for the Internet forum posters to call in from all over the country.

That show gave birth to the historical captured recording by Samantha using the "Dminor" hat as an anonymous identity to call into the radio show and to give her opinion that Jameson was part of the Ramsey spin team and Samantha called Jameson a liar. That confrontation on the air caused major conflicts and attitudes that started the early flame threads in January 1999 although the invitation for the seeds of hostility had been planted a month earlier when Matthews sent e-mails to several posters, including Samantha and myself inviting us to use the broadcast show format to confront Jameson on the air.

That January 1st show also added major hostility between another poster using the hat of "LooLoo" (aka LoriAnn) who also tried to call into the radio show but was intercepted by Lance's girlfriend Lisa Flowers who was helping on the show to answer telephone callers. Just as LoriAnn called in, it was announced that the theme of the show suddenly switched from the Internet posters to discussion about J.T. Colfax. To the forum posters who were part of the WROW chat room that night it appeared obvious that Matthews was protecting Jameson from others voicing their opinions about their suspicions regarding her suspected role she played in the Ramsey investigation specifically but not limited to being a part of the RST (Ramsey Spin Team.)

Three days later the J.T. Colfax web site was suddenly hacked and a picture of a small boy flipping the bird was replaced on the front main page. To this date it is not known who was behind the hacking of the web site. All hell broke out on the BNF and what had already become a major flame forum against Jameson turned into major forum war against Matthews and the incarcerated Colfax who would later tell the story of how he had very little knowledge much less control over what Mathews was dong.

During January 1999 the vicious flaming was so intense on the BNF that many wondered if the forum would close any day. Matthews became vicious with vile postings and filthy language directed mainly toward a group known as the "queens" and their immediate friends and the forum gave birth to massive anonymous members including Matthews under faux hats to attack and counter attack. Matthews claimed the only people who had the password to the now defunk J.T. Colfax web site were himself, Wiltonjr and the previous forum owner who created the site and with that Matthews targeted Wiltonjr as the hacker of the web site. Wiltonjr denied the hacking and that created additional hostility toward Matthews by Wiltonjr and his supporters.

For two solid weeks Lance Matthews was on the war path to point the finger at such posters as Samantha for when she called into the show under the "Dminor" hat and myself and several other posters on the BNF tried to be a voice of reason that Matthews had brought a lot of what happened onto himself. In private, he encouraged posters in December to call into the shows and confront Jameson and he claimed he was being impartial to allow all views, both pro and anti Rams but Matthews was allowing Jameson to voice her views against other forum posters like calling Mrs.Brady the lynch mob on the air but because she didn't do it directly to Mrs.Brady it was not considered confrontational but it was still an attack on another poster.

The "Wheel of Fortune" game thread started on the forum revealed a lot of personal information about Matthews and his family and when Gsquared came forward to tell the others that it was Matthews who posted a flame attack thread against one of the "queens" group from the previous fall then accusations began whereas Matthews accused Gsquared of paying him to go to a Kinko's to post the information. Gsquared denied the purpose of the money being paid saying it was toward Matthews long distance telephone bills. Matthews went up against the wrong crowd and he paid the price.

On January 16th a diversion of sorts occurred that temporarily brought the flame war against Matthews to a halt when an incident labeled as the "Tyzano Rape Hoax" happened. A poster under the hat name of "Penny" posted on Murphy's WebbSleuths forum using the logon of the Tyzano hat account posting that she was a friend of Tyzano's reporting that Tyzano had been raped in real life in the presence of her small child and giving the reason being that personal information was posted on the BNF that allowed the rapist to locate the real life location where Tyzano lived

Another poster coped the post from the WebbSleuth's forum to the BNF and shortly after several of the WebbSleuths posters came to the BNF to attack and accuse the BNF members, specifically Gsquared and two others known as Ted and Stingray. Additionally other BNF posters were being accused of insensitive caring toward Tyzano and the concern for personal information being posted on the open forums.

Lance Matthews, along with Jameson were two of the posters who claimed to be in e-mail communication with the "real" Tyzano during this reported period claiming the incident was not a hoax and Matthews even made an announcement on the January 16th Dave Lucas show about the reported rape. When the BNF posters asked Matthews to produce the e-mails to prove the incident was not a hoax he reported the e-mails had been lost. Matthews along with Jameson and a few others were called liars and accused of being a part of the hoax.

Dave Lucas, in the meantime was now calling Matthews, the "Internet personality," and giving an appearance during the live shows that Lance Matthews was well liked with massive supporters. During all of the behind the scenes hostility, Matthews was continuing to play guest host on the radio show as he increased his guest list to popular side show players but the attitudes of many vowed not to listen to the broadcasts.

By the middle of February on Valentine's Day Matthews posted what he called his "Valentine Day Special" on the JonBenet Ramsey discussion forum of the BNF, which was a disgusting and vile story of donkeys and whores who he named "Gsquared" and "Scoobi," the names of two regular members of the forum. The next day on the 15th of February Matthews posted a message on the BNF inviting everybody to a special Dave Lucas radio show discussion to talk about the issues on the forum in what he called, "Matthews solution to the BNF."

The "Valentine Day Special" was in my opinion the worst posting I had ever read much less that it came from Matthews. Many others voice similar opinions and word was out suggesting to boycott the radio shows. I set up to record the show that night of February 15th as I listened in amazement as both Matthews and Dave Lucas made fun of the BNF posters. They were joined by Jameson in what appeared to be a stand off with "them" against the BNF. A few posters showed up in the wrow chat room.

The only Internet poster who called in was LoriAnn who was known as "LooLoo" and later "Poisnivy" on the forum. She let the listening audience know that it was her opinion that Lance was playing the victim and that he was just as responsible for the flaming on the forums as where the others. The three hour February 15th show is the only one that I completely typed a written transcript for as a documented history of just some of the things that go on behind the Internet subculture. And although ninety percent of that show was comprised of Matthews and Jameson talking about the Ramsey case one can read that transcript and view a larger picture of how the radio show was used that night, in my opinion as a controlled venue to flame other posters.

After the February 15th show there were four more scheduled shows the end of February and into March and April with guests like Charles Bosworth, Dwight Wallington, Lawrence Schiller, Chuck Green, Stan Oliner, Cina Wong, Darney Hoffman, Judith Phillips, Frank Coffman, Micheal Tracey and Dale Yeager. And during those two months Lance Matthews vowed to not play into the flame wars on the BNF. But the month of April and into May brought a new group of anonymous posters to the BNF who wrecked total havoc on the forum. Many believed Matthews was behind the attacked but nobody would prove that.

The last Dave Lucas radio show aired on May 1st and had no scheduled guests other than Matthews and his friend, another forum poster under the hat of "Rushnut." On May 8, 1999 Matthews posted on the Boulder News Forum that Dave Lucas had been in an automobile accident and was hit by a drunk driver and that his car was totaled. A few posters on the forum expressed their sympathy while others doubted the story. Shortly after that Matthews posted on the WebbSleuths forum that Dave scheduled a special chat session in the Wrow chat room where he said Dave Lucas was to appear to explain what happened and why the Dave Lucas show was being cancelled.

At 10pm on the 8th of May a dozen posters showed up in the chat room. Matthews was short on answers and claimed that Dave was going to show up any minute with a full explanation. While the posters were waiting for Dave to appear, Matthews made the comment, "Dave was rear-ended by a drunk driver... he is just tired working for that station and the timing was good to cancel the show." Matthews also informed the group in a posting that he, "would have his own station up and running soon." While waiting for Dave, Matthews continued to promote the Colfax jail letters by posting the Sunnyday.com url for posters to visit the web site.

Finally a poster under the hat name of "CrashVictim" appeared in the chat room introducing himself as Dave Lucas and who posted the following,

"The show IS over! We have several options including setting up a web-based station. I did want to reassure everyone that I am okay post-crash. We seem to have filled the airwaves with many great shows and I am glad that many people enjoyed them but it is time to move on. New email address is DaveLucas@juno.com. A ll I have to say is that we had a great run but it is time now to rest! I am recuperating at home... my car is in autoheaven."

And with that "CrashVictim" left the chat room.

That was the last time anybody on the forums heard from Dave Lucas. Dave simply disappeared although many believe there is a story behind the cancellation of the radio shows that is yet to be heard.

On May 20, 1999 the Boulder News Forum closed for good after intense flaming attacks by unknown persons with vile and filty postings about JonBenet Ramsey.

by ACandyRose

Saturday, June 15, 2001



*** indicates audio file not available

AK, Internet poster (02-27-1999) ***

AK, Internet poster (03-06-1999)

AK, Internet poster (03-13-1999) ***

Andrew Hodges, author of "A Mother Gone Bad" (12-30-1998)

Andrew Hodges, author of "A Mother Gone Bad" (01-30-1999)

AuntieBJ, Internet poster (aka ACandyRose) (12-23-1998) ***

Beanie, Internet poster (11-11-1998) ***

Beanie, Internet poster (12-30-1998)

Beanie, Internet poster (01-01-1999)

Brenda, Internet poster (03-06-1999)

Brenda, Internet poster (04-03-1999)

Catnip, Internet poster (01-01-1999)

Charles Bosworth, Co-author of "Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey" (01-30-1999)

Charles Bosworth, Co-author of "Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey" (02-27-1999)

China, Internet poster (01-01-1999)

Chuck Green, Columnist for The Denver Post (03-06-1999)

Chuck Green, Columnist for The Denver Post (04-20-1999) ***

Cina Wong, Vice Pres. of NADE (03-13-1999) ***

Connie, Internet poster (01-01-1999)

Cyril Wecht, Author of "Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey" (02-27-1999)

Dale Yeager, Executive Director of Seraph (01-30-1999)

Dale Yeager, Executive Director of Seraph (02-06-1999)

Dale Yeager, Executive Director of Seraph (04-24-1999) ***

Dan from Alaska (03-06-1999)

Dan from Alaska (03-13-1999) ***

Dan Meltzer (Rushnut) (05-01-1999) ***

Darney Hoffman, New York Attorney (12-23-1998) ***

Darney Hoffman, New York Attorney (12-30-1998)

Darney Hoffman, New York Attorney (01-30-1999)

Darney Hoffman, New York Attorney (02-06-1999)

Darney Hoffman, New York Attorney (03-13-1999) ***

Darney Hoffman, New York Attorney (04-19-1999)

Dminor, Internet poster (01-01-1999)

Dear Clarksburg Song by Randy Walker (12-23-1998) ***

Dwight Wallington, author of "A Little Girls Dream" (01-30-1999) ***

Dwight Wallington, author of "A Little Girls Dream" (02-27-1999) ***

Frank Coffman, Photo Journalist and Independent reporter (04-03-1999)

Frank Coffman, Photo Journalist and Independent reporter (04-19-1999)

Frank Coffman, Photo Journalist and Independent reporter (04-20-1999) ***

Frank (unknown caller) (12-30-1998)

Ginja, Internet poster (01-01-1999)

George from Chatum (12-23-1998) ***

George from Chatum (12-30-1998)

Gsquared, Internet poster (Disconnected) (12-30-1998) ***

Harmony, Internet poster (02-06-1999)

Helen, Internet poster from California (01-30-1999)

JanBrady, Internet poster (11-11-1998) ***

Janet, Internet poster (02-06-1999)

Jameson, Internet poster (12-23-1998) ***

Jameson, Internet poster (12-30-1998)

Jameson, Internet poster (01-01-1999)

Jameson, Internet poster (02-06-1999)

Jameson, Internet poster (02-15-1999)

Jameson, Internet poster (03-06-1999)

J.T.Colfax Pre-recorded in Boulder County Jail (12-30-1998)

Judith Phillips, JBR's Photographer and former Ramsey friend (04-03-1999)

Justin Mitchell, Independent Reporter (12-23-1998) ***

Justin Mitchell, Independent Reporter (12-30-1998)

Lake, Internet poster (02-06-1999)

Lake, Internet poster (02-27-1999) ***

Lance Matthews (11-11-1998) ***

Lance Matthews (12-23-1998) ***

Lance Matthews (12-30-1998)

Lance Matthews (01-01-1999)

Lance Matthews (01-16-1999)

Lance Matthews (01-30-1999)

Lance Matthews (02-06-1999)

Lance Matthews (02-15-1999)

Lance Matthews (02-27-1999)

Lance Matthews (03-06-1999)

Lance Matthews (03-13-1999) ***

Lance Matthews (04-03-1999)

Lance Matthews (04-19-1999)

Lance Matthews (04-20-1999) ***

Lance Matthews (04-24-1999)

Lance Matthews (05-01-1999) ***

Lawrence Schiller, Author of "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town," (03-06-1999)

Linda McLean, author of "JonBenet's Mother, Tragedy and Truth" (12-30-1998)

Linda McLean, author of "JonBenet's Mother, Tragedy and Truth" (Cancelled) (01-30-1999)

Lisa Flowers (01-01-1999)

LoriAnn (LooLoo/Poisnivy) (02-15-1999)

Maxi, Internet poster (01-01-1999)

Maxi, Internet poster (01-30-1999)

Micheal Tracey, Professor University of Colorado (04-20-1999) ***

Mystery Guest (01-30-1999)

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (11-11-1998) ***

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (12-23-1998) ***

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (12-30-1998)

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (01-01-1999)

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (01-30-1999)

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (02-06-1999)

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (02-27-1999)

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (03-06-1999)

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (03-13-1999) ***

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (04-03-1999)

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (04-19-1999) ***

Mrs. Brady of Mrs.Brady's Url's (04-20-1999) ***

Pam Paugh, Patsy Ramsey's sister (12-30-1998)

Pam Paugh, Patsy Ramsey's sister (Cancelled) (01-30-1999)

Patricia Calhoun, Editor of Westword (11-11-1998) ***

Randy Walker (12-23-1998) ***

Richard Fleming, Editor of the Boulder Weekly (12-30-1998)

Rodney, Internet poster (01-01-1999)

Scoobi, Internet poster (12-30-1998)

Stan Oliner, Curator for the Colorado Historical Society (03-06-1999)

Stan B. Walters ("The Lie Guy"), 22 years lie detection trainer (11-11-1998) ***

Stan B. Walters ("The Lie Guy"), 22 years lie detection trainer (12-23-1998) ***

Steven Singular, author of "Presumed Guilty (01-30-1999)

Texas1, Internet poster (03-13-1999) ***

Tom from California (03-06-1999)

Whispering Ed (04-19-1999)

Wiltonjr, Internet poster (01-01-1999)

The Dave Lucas Radio Show

Radio Promo November 11, 1998



matthews - 02:14pm Nov 11, 1998 MST

Hi, Tonight (Nov.11th) on WROW in N.Y., the midnight D.J. (Dave Lucas) is doing a special on JonBenet Ramsey Murder Subculture. The JBR segment will begin at half past midnite N.Y time. The invited guests include J.T.Colfax (we still are trying to get confirmation on HIS end), Patricia Calhoun from Westword, The Lie Guy, and others. I will be a guest in the studio during the broadcast.

I would like to use this thread to also invite others... GOETHE2, MURPHY, TEXAS1 and any others from the "websleuths crew"!

You folks always gripe about how the RamRam specials are slanted, or to coin a phrase from Texas, "JADED". Well here's YOUR chance to stop HIDING BEHIND your keyboards and moniters and join me on the air in a LIVE public forum. You love to sit and speculate on this and that, BUT CAN YOU come out into the open to discuss YOUR views?

I know in the past, the Websleuth crew has knocked any public broadcast THAT doesn't EXCLUSIVELY proclaim the innocence of the Ram. BUT... THIS TIME YOU ARE FORWARNED AND CORDIALLY INVITED TO PARTICIPATE!!!!

It would be nice to have "BOTH SIDES" of the story represented!

Welcome one, welcome ALL. I have hopes of that this broadcast will turn into a "Jury Room" type thing. Whereby, taking it in it's original context, we will have a place for "both sides" to meet and hang out.

DAVE LUCAS SHOW WROW590 at half past midnight N.Y. time!

One - Eight Hundred - WROW

One-Eight Hundred- nine seven six- nine five nine zero.

PONTIFICATE and then hide.

matthews - 02:51pm Nov 12, 1998 MST

PRORAMS...GET YOUR PRORAMS HEYA'....PRORAMS, GET YOUR PRORAMS. I can here the barkers shouting the call loud and clear. Picture the scene; Phatsy gets indicted AND the croud goes wild. Screams of glee, tears of joy and relief abound!!! Oh what a day it will be for JUSTICE for that little girl with the funny name. She smiles down from heaven content THAT her cries of help, although falling on deaf ears at first, were finally heard by the Grand Jury and the majority of the population. She may now move on and FINALLY rest in peace. It is a good day to be an American. It is a good day for JUSTICE. It is a good day for everyone, almost everyone that is...

...It will not be a good day for Phatsy or Mr. RamRam! It will not be a good day for all those who hold steadfast to Ramsey innocence i (dispite the indictment AND the overwhelming evidence.) The latter will flock together to whisper how it is all sooooooo unfair. "Those nice Ramseys just couldn't have done it", will be their only cries. THERE ONLY CRIES. Oh, they'll say how the legal system's so unfair ('cept when it comes down to people that are "sick" like that Colfax guy). AND they will say what a wrong decision the GJ gave. AND THEN the will run and hide...Oh, the humility! To have backed those killers with all there efforts. To have put post after post of Ramseyspeak out in the forums and have been all along SUPPORTING MURDERERS. To held steadfast to NOT looking at ALL the pointing fingers of evidence (an extension of JBR's own heavenly hand, reaching down to point the way of the TRUTH about THAT night).

These folks will RUN AND HIDE. They will be done spouting off "Ramspin". AND will be such an "unsellable item" on ALL internet channels THAT they will have to hire barkers to walk down the isles of the forums and servers shouting in that old familliar hot dog pushers voice we all remember from our childhood trips to the ballgame.... "ProRams, get your ProRams heya'..." No thank you, I don't think I quite care for one of THOSE right now.

NOW, on pontificating and then hiding.... I invited the ProRams to come out from behind their computers and join in a radio show last night. Did they show? NO. I asked nicely, even explaining THAT I had hoped to get both views on the air in public. Yes, YOU probably would've been asked to name specifics details that would support YOUR beliefs THAT the Rams are innocent. YOU all do such a marvalous job of spin here, I figured THAT a LIVE broadcast would give you the perfect opportunity to "come out of your closets" and share your beliefs with the general public. DID YOU SHOW....NO! You have NO ONE but yourselves to BLAME when you cry and whine about all the "unfair coverage" those nice Ramsey folks are getting.

In an effort to 'enlighten' the Websleuth community (who still doubts that I am Matthews). I gave one of THEM my private e-mail addy and asked for this individual to contact me so THAT next time she wanted to speculate on "who I am" or any other aspect of "me", she could just ask. Did she? NO. More content to GUESS at stuff than to SEEK OUT THE TRUTH! Damn, THAT sounds familiar. No wonder THEY can believe in the innocence of the Rams

The Dave Lucas Radio Show

Radio Review December 23, 1998



AuntieBJ's Radio Show Commentary

auntiebj - 05:47am Dec 23, 1998 MST

If you wanna dance, you have to pay the fiddler.

Well tonight was first for me. In all my years (and there are a lot of those), I have never talk to anybody on a radio show or ever been involved with any type of media for that matter. But this morning around one o'clock am, I was one of the unexpected participants of the Dave Lucas show in Albany, NewYork where, the topic of discussion was the Internet subculture surrounding the JBR case AND the man they called the mysterious J.T.Colfax. I personally never thought of him as mysterious. I had heard about the show from Lance Matthews as did so many others and had tried for the first hour to get the live show via the radio station's Internet www.wrow.com web page using the RealPlayer Plus with no success because it wouldn't work on the web page so I missed the first hour of the show.

I finally gave up and decided to go visit some friends in MIRC chat. But being the persistent person that I can be, I kept trying different methods to figure a way to listen to the live show. Finally while still in the chat room I was able to get on the air via telephone. Lance Matthews, one of our more zealous BNF forum favorites, to some, was a guest on the show. I spent the first hour basically listening to several other callers such as Justin Mitchell, a news journalist talking via telephone with Dave Lucas covering some old news and opinions on the JonBenet case. They also talked about J.T.Colfax and his Clarksburg project, his writings, his artwork, his criminal history and the events that surrounded his involvement in the various facets of the JonBenet murder case.

Another unexpected first was that I ended up on the air with the infamous Jameson, who by the way was a woman with a very soft spoken and almost angelic tone of voice. Much different than the perception of reading her various postings. I was under the impression from prior emails from Lance Matthews that a variety of forum posters were invited to bring a controversial subject and opinion to the show regarding the JonBenet forums.

Lance Matthews already knew from his email guest list that he was drawing together a rather controversial group to begin with much less to ask them to be on the same show without bring up controversial subjects that could create a atmosphoere of attitudes. But after I was on the air then Mr. Matthews informed me that this was a Christmas show and opinions were to be kept in a more spiritual tone so to speak. Sort of like thinking you were being invited to a dog fight and then being told that one of the dog was a princess and you must not do or say anything that would offend them.


auntiebj - 05:49am Dec 23, 1998 MST (#1 of 6)

If you wanna dance, you have to pay the fiddler.

AuntieBJ's Commentary continued..........

I did want to ask Justin Mitchel his professional opinion as a journalist regarding the Frank Coffman photo session of John Ramsey in Boulder last week but he was no longer on the air by the time I got to ask the question so Lance gave Jameson the floor to ask her opinion and she said she felt enough was enough on picture taking and that she didn't blame John Ramsey for over acting. Did I say acting, I mean over reacting. So I asked her then didn't she think it was enough was enough to keep taking pictures of the house, the hell hole as they call it and she didn't seem to think that was problem because she said she felt that was something people wanted to see. But what if people wanted to see pictures of John Ramsey?

Well in essence, Jameson said John Ramsey was human and the house wasn't. My next question was going to be then why if they don't want their pictures taken or involved with media then why are they appearing in a documentary for the public to see? I mean, isn't one documentary enough is enough or at what point or what version should that be classified as enough is enough.

But then there was a station break and during at break I was informed again by Lance Matthews that this was a Christmas show and that I shouldn't be pressing these type of issues that could bring about a more controversial attitude opposed to opinion and upset a particular person who was basically making her first media debut and by making waves could create stone blocks in future media issues. Of course there was another telephone caller whose name was Roger who was voicing a rather strong opinion regarding the JonBenet case and the role of the keystone cops in Boulder and Matthews didn't even reminded that this was a Christmas show.

The second question I wanted to asked Mitchel again was why Lou Smit was involved with the plea bargain arrangements involving J.T. Colfax's case? Lance also turned that answer over to Jameson who said she had heard that Lou Smit was not involved with the actual plea bargain but that he was just wandering around outside the court room at the particular time that the plea bargain arrangements were being made for J.T. Colfax and just out of some curiosity Lou Smit just wanted to gawk in on J.T.Colfax to see what he looked like so hence, he was just there.

Up until tonight I was sure that Lance and/or Colfax had said that Lou Smit was actually and positively a member of the plea bargain team but tonight Lance admitted that he couldn't confirm that since Jameson said what she heard. So the question now is what really happened during the plea bargain arrangements and was Lou an active team member or just some old detective with an idle curiosity who had nothing better to do that day and why was J.T.Colfax making such an issue about this then?


auntiebj - 05:50am Dec 23, 1998 MST (#2 of 6)

If you wanna dance, you have to pay the fiddler.

AuntieBJ's Commentary continued.......

The highlight of the evening though was the on air pre-interview that Dave Lucas had with J.T.Colfax. I have never met Colfax before nor have I personally ever written to him other than postings on the BNF forum and I have only read his letters here on the forum. I have heard all kind of stories, mostly bad about his escapades in Boulder, his attention seeking ego, his fascination with corpse photos, his arson attempts, etc., etc., etc. And any opinion I have regarding him has always been somewhat in a neutral position of just wondering in amazement just how and what made this man tick to do what he did trying not to be too judgmental along the way.

But after hearing him speak tonight, I have to say J.T.Colfax is an extremely intelligent man, very articulate, quite a different perception of what his letters, his artwork, his antics bring forth. If I didn't hear it for myself, I wouldn't believe it. I mean, one can see his humor in his writings, you can see his style and frankness in his honesty with no holes bared. The man basically tells it like its, no powder puffing the stories to make them more interesting. I was impressed with the interview and the man. And at the same time I am still in total awe of how in the hell he ever got himself into all of this mess or even finding the humor in photographing corpses.

I can only say that I do hope God will look kindly on him upon his release from the Boulder County Jail and help him see his way to as honest a life that parallels what he puts forth in his writings. Lance Matthews, on the other hand is quite a showman in my opinion and a media manager that J.T.Colfax could only have dreamed of. I can see why the two of them connected while in jail together. Both are very intelligent, aggressive, artistic.

My disappointment of the evening came during the last five minutes of the show when Lance Matthews gave his little speech thanking what appeared to be his hand picked sweetheart to be his telephone guest on his show and I don't mean L.Flowers. So I have to ask myself after looking back over the various e-mails and forum postings that highlighted the guest list to appear if this really was a JonBenet Ramsey show or a J.T. Colfax show or a invitation of controversial Internet forum members or a Jameson media debut for her pre-preparation from what he refered to as non media existence until now.

So like with J.T. Colfax, Lance Matthews has become media manager that Jameson could only have dreamed of. In closing I will say that Dave Lucus on the show was very professional and the show was enjoyable and interesting.



jameson_ - 01:57pm Dec 23, 1998 MST (#8 of 8)


The show was a good one. It was balanced, informative, poignant and amusing. At one point I was laughing out loud. (Green jello indeed!)

I was hesitant to participate. For personal reasons, I have always chosen NOT to participate in such media programs. I am glad I came out for this one.

Thanks to Dave Lucas and Lance Matthews for having me on as a guest and for providing a place for different voices to be heard



matthews - 08:53pm Dec 26, 1998 MST (#50 of 50)

Thank GOD for the First Amendment !!!!

Well said Connie, My true intention of the radio show was to have all sides seen in an informative show. My big goals for the evening were to have Mrs.B give some backround on the forums and internet interest, then have Chris give the "anti-Ram" side of the fence and the forum she moderates, then Jams give the "pro-Ram" side of the fence and the forum she moderates. The evening would wind down with J.T.Colfax and the two extremes of THAT story, ie Ginja and Beanie.

I tried to have a balanced, informative, and unbiased show. Auntie came on after Mrs.Brady and Darnay were off(they got about 1hr 20min). She heard Jams and the aftermath....Listening to the tapes now I can understand how it looked to her. Ginja heard the first half of the show and didn't hear the rest. As it is with ALL stories...you can't formulate an accurate idea unless you hear all sides.

Dave's show is not a confrontational one. I had to talk over the format with him over many hours because of the possibilty of a confrontation on the air. He would just shut down all calls if that had occured.

My first disappointment happened when both Ma and Darnay had hung up...part of my agreement with jameson was THAT no one would be informed THAT she was going to appear. In all honesty she wasn't sure tHAT she would go through with it until the last minute and I didn't want to look like an idiot by announcing a no-show.

It took A LOT of litteral begging on my part to get her on the show. She was very reluctant. She also wanted to make it perfectly clear THAT this was a one time thing and she wouldn't do it again.

The anti-rams always complain THAT the ProRams never show up for "public" appearences. The ProRams always complain THSAT the JBR stuff in the media is slanted...I just wanted to be able to present BOTH views.

So, I am guilty of trying to put together an unbiased, informative program for others to be able to see this whole intrernet subculture that surrounds the JBR case from ALL sides. Please by all means...flame for this now.


The Dave Lucas Radio Show

Press Release December 30, 1998


People are still talking about the appearance of Patsy Ramsey's sister Pam Paugh on "Dave Lucas Special Edition---JonBenet Ramsey--- the internet subculture" 12/30/98

"...the show was good. It was even. It was fair. Both sides got to say their peaces."--Lance Matthews (keeper of the JTColfax website )

"...Dave Lucas creates buzz--- he delivers the unexpected, the mysterious, the exciting--- stuff that keeps you awake long after the show is over."--Ariminda del Riviera (publisher "OneWorldBullet!n Online")

Syndicated radio talk shows are a dime-a-dozen on the internet. Thankfully WROW Program Director Paul Vandenburg is always ON THE BUTTON, having the foresight to get RealAudio up and running and establish a web-presence for am590 reaching far beyond anything Marconi ever dreamed about! A LOCAL radio station that covers the world! http://www.wrow.com

On 12/26/96 approx. 1:05pm 6 year old JonBenet Ramsey was found dead in her parents home in Boulder, Colorado. More than two years now have passed, and the murder remains unsolved. Like most people, I was moved by the case and followed all of the newspaper/magazine/TV reports.

Purely by chance, I met a gentleman last fall by the name of Lance Matthews who was drowning himself in the internet subculture that had sprung up around the Ramsey case. Matthews involvement came about as a result of his personal friendship with jailed performance artist JT Colfax (once a suspect in the Ramsey murder). Matthews (who had no previous knowledge about the internet or computers) built a shrine--- a website dedicated to the imprisoned Colfax; http://members.tripod.com/~JT_Colfax/index.htm

I thought it would be fascinating concept to do a radio show zeroing in on that internet subculture. Matthews would be the catalyst since he was well-known in pro and anti- Ramsey chat rooms and news forums.

We did two programs that would prove to be the "dress rehearsals" for the December 30th show... the two broadcasts never made it out onto the net because the RealAudio server had a habit of going down (and I did not know that the fix was relatively easy and could be done right from the backroom of the station!) On 12/30, RealAudio was up and running and the station website chat room wide open. (We maxed out the chatroom, reaching the total number of allowed users in short order!) Later, I started a thread on the Boulder News Forum that morphed into the fastest-growing thread that forum had seen in quite some time!

The evenings show was to be a first in the history of media coverage in the Ramsey case; Both "sides of the fence" (pro and anti-Ram) met in a venue that was not only neutral but comfortable and allowed both views to be aired and shared. Guests for the evening's broadcast included; Lance Matthews, in the studio; Mrs.Brady, of Mrs.Brady's URLs; Chris, Moderator of Justice Watch forums; Jameson, moderator of Web Sleuths forums; Richard Fleming, Editor of Boulder Weekly; Justin Mitchell, independant reporter MSNBC; Darnay Hoffman, N.Y.C. lawyer who had filed suit against Alex Hunter in the lack of prosecution in this case; Linda McLean, friend of Patsy and author of JonBenet's Mother:The Tragedy and the Truth; Dr. Andrew Hodges, psychiatrist and author of A Mother Gone Bad; The Hidden Confession of JonBenet's Killer .

The crown jewel of the December 30 broadcast was the appearance of Pam Paugh, Patsy Ramsey's sister, who chatted with us for more than TWO full hours--- the first time she ever took calls and answered questions from the public! Some of the information gleaned from the interview: Pam's insite to the idendentity of the real killer. The reason for the much talked about break in friendship between Fleet White and John Ramsey. (Fleet was with John when he discoved the body of JonBenet.) The first hand details of this event that occured after JonBenet's funeral.

Sound clips available at http://members.tripod.com/~MrWebb/index.html

We scooped/superceded DATELINE NBC as well! Here's what was said on DATELINE NBC Monday night 1/4/99 MYSTERIES SINK CASES, AND THIS INVESTIGATION IS FULL OF UNSOLVED MYSTERIES. NBC News Consultant Lawrence Schiller: Another great mystery, at least right now, is the DNA evidence found on JonBenet's body. Reporter:There was DNA evidence taken from JonBenet's fingernails? Schiller: YES. It may have been contaminated. The bands on the test strips are very very weak, but they haven't been matched to anybody. Reporter: Nobody in the family? Schiller: They haven't been matched to anybody. Not only members of the families, but playmates, or other people she associated with. Reporter: And Schiller says there's more DNA evidence that's even MORE troubling. There is a second source of DNA foundin JonBenet's underwear? Schiller: That is correct. It's a mixed stain. And we don't know yet whether the second source, the minor component, is saliva or blood, but certainly, if it doesn't match the father, which it doesn't seem to, doesn't match the mother, which it doesn't seem to, it has to be somebody else. Reporter: And who might that be? Schiller: We know police have taken DNA from other people they've questioned in the case. And just in the last few weeks, they took DNA from Patsy Ramsey's relatives in Atlanta.

Here's what Pam Paugh said on WROW 12/30/98 Question: Does the DNA under those fingernails actually match the DNA that was found in the panties? Pam: "Well, from what I know, the DNA under the fingernails, when it was collected, and ummm, I saw JonBenet's body (obviously) -- her fingernails had been removed fairly deeply into the nail bed ummm I would say about, oh on a child about an eighth of an inch from what we would call the half moon... ummm.. and later to find out though that when the fingernails were being removed the instruments that were used were not clean and nor were they taken out of a sealed sanitized package. They actually used previously used clippers and files and so forth so it was not known if THEY contaminated them or what--- so that had to be put aside as not useable. Secondarily then there was DNA found on the INside of her panties which is considered commingling DNA and that means that in other words if I touch your shoulder and then YOU touch your shoulder, ummm, those are unlikely to be touched in the same place Ummm if we however umm hold hands, and then or umm if I'm you know holding your hand or sticking my finger in your mouth or whatever and THEN it gets on the inside of your clothing, that's commingling DNA. So that's a long process to seperate that. And when it WAS seperated one strain of DNA does in fact belong to JB the other strain is unidentifiable. It has been tested against Patsy John and Burke's DNA and it is DEFINITELY a no-match."

So what's next for Dave Lucas and WROW? In the works: "Two Mysterious Disappearances" about missing SUNY-Albany coed Suzanne Lyall and pregnant NYC resident Kristine Kupka. I've been in touch with both families and we need to keep the cases in the public eye. There is even a web site is devoted to finding Suzanne Lyall at: http://www.sunnyday.com/suzanne/

We're also planning a special on "The Black ViewPoint" AND YES--- another very special broadcast dedicated to little JonBenet Ramsey, with special guests invited! The program currently airs Saturdays at Midnight on AM590 WROW Albany NY http://www.wrow.com Dave Lucas mrwebb@slip.net phone:



The Dave Lucas Radio Show

Radio Review December 31, 1998



beanie - 02:33am Dec 31, 1998 MST

... Jameson is a Liar. ... Curious

This morning's radio interviews have generated REAL news. Pam Paugh eliminated Fleet and Priscilla as supects. She did a great job of defending Patsy to the masses. Pam killed the DNA. Pam outed Jameson. There was much more. This was a true Ramsey Case spectacular. My hat is off to Dave Lucas... a talk show host who is more interested in the topic, than his ego. Bless you, Dave. And Lance... What can I say... GREAT job!!! ... Curious



jameson_ - 03:05am Dec 31, 1998 MST (#4 of 20)


Pam "outed" me ????? LOL

Pam told the truth - I am not related to the Ramseys and I do not work for them, or their lawyers, or their investigators.

We talked about my meeting the Ramseys last Spring - but that is on the TimeLine - no secret.

Pam said she and I have talked and met in person. Gee, is that a big surprise? (This happened last Fall)

We visited the cemetary together... surely someone will find a way to show how that proves the Ramseys did this and I am covering for them. God help me, I can't remember if we went dutch when we went to Dunkin' Donuts. I may not only be guilty of accepting a cup of coffee from John but of accepting a donut from his sister-in-law. Such high wages for two years of my life! What a joke...

But wait, I tend to pick up tabs... Maybe I bought HER the donut - Oh my, just what could THAT mean!!

I will tell you that we didn't take any photos of each other at the grave. Personally I find those "grave shots" offensive.

I think the show was a good one. Mrs. Brady, Darnay Hoffman, Andrew Hodges, Gsquared, SueBead, George and Frank from the Albany area, Beanie... they all spoke their minds.

And for once the other side was heard. Linda McLean, Pam Paugh and jameson spoke out.

For myself, I think I am quite done for a while. I had anticipated only doing one show, but certain things prompted me to call in again and I want to thank Matthews and Dave Lucas for the opportunity to speak. I think that the rumors about jameson and jameson's involvement here have been answered publicly in a manner that should end the continuous speculation on the forums. If posters choose to continue with their insistance that I am a member of the Ramsey family or on some Ramsey payroll, then they are clearly risking being accused of slander or libel.

I received a phone call informing me that there are posts on-line saying I am being investigated by the BPD or DA. I have spoken on these subjects with both of those agencies, long ago. I am not aware that either of these agencies has any desire to speak with me at this point. Once again, the forums are spreading rumors in a wasted effort to discredit me. Are the new rumors an effort to influence new posters or media who might just now be checking in? I wouldn't doubt it... typical forum thing.

Well, it is almost 5 am and I haven't made it to bed yet. I think the show was a good one... hope people really LISTENED and I hope justice is served...



lflowers - 01:52pm Dec 31, 1998 MST (#39 of 53)

I would think that this particular public appearance would have helped diminish at least some of the mystery and essentially tabloidesque speculation surrounding Jameson...certainly it does settle the question of her gender...and should have served to de villify her as well. I do not agree with Jameson's theories, but I do believe that her intentions are sincere...not rooted in ambition in the cheap sense; nor in a parsimonius desire for fame. This isnt about how much media exposure Jameson can get...about name dropping and other sleazy L.A. style publicity stunts turned under the table...

Jameson is indeed involved in this case on an intense emotional level; and perhaps, as with any kind of devotion of that nature, delusion is inevitably a factor.But nevertheless I believe wholeheartedly that her primary concern IS for justice for JonBenet, and not to promote herself as some kind of underground "celebrity" at the expense of a poor murdered six year old in wh0re's clothing. P.S. Patsy did it. (imo)



Radio Show matthews - 09:09pm Dec 31, 1998 MST

Thank GOD for the First Amendment !!!!

Thanks for your tuning in the other night. I had fun and was quite entertained. I hope you all enjoyed it.

It took a lot of effort to get the show together and I left the studio last night with a sense of satisfaction, knowing THAT I had been able to present the show without too many flaws.

I have seen the proRam documentary or the antiRam shows and have watched the other sides bicker afterwards about how the show was so prejudice. I always have invited both sides to the show Dave puts on. I was glad jameson showed last time and I believe her appearance and the way the show was formatted (information NOT confrontation) paved the way for last night's show to happen.

I wanted to present a show THAT had both viewpoints. Everything I've seen or heard thus far has been slanted either Pro or Anti-Ram. It has always troubled me THAT no program ever covers both sides of the circus. My intentions were to provide a venue that was both "safe" and comfortable for both sides to air their POV's and there personal opinions about this whole JBR case. I feel THAT I accomplished this. I am very pleased THAT Pam and Linda showed and were willing to participate. Jameson going on the air last night was an unplanned event.

Thank you, Mrs.Brady, for facilitating the appearance of Darnay and Dr.Hodges! Thank you Everyone that listened in and went to the chat room on WROW. Special thanks goes to Pam Paugh, Linda McLean, and even jameson..... for without them we would have had another Ram bashing show.....and of course afterwards the forums would be saying how "chicken" the other side was for not showing up.

I frequently speak to jameson.... getting her to come on the first time was VERY hard. She has a very soft voice and was very self conscious about being heard on the air. Dave had to turn her line ALL THE WAY UP so she would match the other voices on the air. This accounts for the slight distortion you may have heard and some have commented on. I find jameson to be sincere in her belief of innocence of the Rams and acts according to her beliefs. She will collect and distribute anything THAT points away from the Ramseys to support and reinforce her POV. I have enjoyed many a late night argument about case, with her.....sliding in an occasional "Patsy did it!" from my side.

I enjoyed my conversations with Linda McLean previous to her appearance on last nights show. I find THAT she has a great foundation in the mechanics of debate. I don't agree with her theories on why Patsy "couldn't have done it" but I don't need to agree with THAT sort of POV to be able to present an unbiased venue for both sides to speak out. I find Linda to be a very good conversationalist and I hope to speak with her in the future. (Lets's all pray there isn't a 3rd anny of this chit)

Pam was a hard sell. Getting her to come on the air was a tough cookie to bite into. I had made her aware of my POV and THAT my involvement in the internet was prompted by the illustrious J.T.Colfax. (Prolly not a wise decision...but the end results are what counts, eh?) As with Linda, I enjoyed my conversations with Pam prior to the show. I find her support of her family admirable, regardless of my opinion of Patsy's involvement in JBR's death.


The Dave Lucas Radio Show

Radio Promo December 31, 1998

For January 1, 1999 Show



matthews - 09:09pm Dec 31, 1998 MST (#1 of 3)

Thank GOD for the First Amendment !!!!

As far as the guests from "my side" of the fence in respect to Darnay and Dr. Hodges, I will need to listen to the tapes before commenting, because I only heard one third of their broadcast due to running around like a chicken with it's head cut off in the studio. I actually only heard two thirds of the entire night.

Speaking of tapes....I will have all three nights available soon, and will post details upon acquiring them.

There will be a radio show tomorrow night, January 1st 12 midnight 'til 2 EST on WROW again. The show will be my story of involvement with the internet subculture, and of course the show will be centered around J.T.Colfax and his antics. I hopefully will have some interesting guests, but so far none are confirmed. I hope some of you who are reading this will support the show by calling in. The number is 1-8OO-WROW 59O.

LFlowers will be in the chat room like last night. I really think those of you who have pre judged this artist based on his corpse photos should tune in. And on that note, I leave you with J.T.'s comments about the internet... J.T. speaks out about YOU!!

And also ask THAT you visit The Colfax Diaries, for a perspective on him.....(There was a "glitch" in the mail and 8 more letters will go up on his site tomorrow....I am updating it daily now!)

Thanks again,

Lance Matthews


The Dave Lucas Radio Show

Radio Promo Format Change

For January 1, 1999 Show



2. "HELP!!!!!!!"

Posted by matthews on 10:02:33 1/01/99

Dave just called.....The format has changed.... The show will center on the internet subculture surrounding the case... as the last one was supposed to and never quite got there. The calls to the station manager prompted him to call Dave Lucas this morning, and in turn, Dave called me and asked me to tell all of you via these forums.

This is the message.... "Please call in tonight. Tonight's show is about YOU (the posters.)"

I have only been "on board" for a short time and most of you have more to say and are WAY MORE knowledgable on THIS!!!!

Okay I will now proceed to beg....PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE call 1-8OO-WROW59O.... (begging's not too atractive, eh?)


G2...Mrs.B....Beanie....Ginja...Connie...Gofigure....Scoobi....Suebead....AND ANYBODY FROM "the other side" (accept those in Nebraska suffering from nudules on the brain)

The Dave Lucas Radio Show

Internet Classic Moments




January 1, 1999 a poster named Samantha called into the show using the "Dminor" hat calling Jameson a liar on the air


January 1, 1999 an unknown woman called into the show suggesting that it was supicious that "WiltonJr" visited JonBenet's gravesite and suggested the call be traced


March 6, 1999 Chuck Green's conversation with Jameson insisting she give her real name.


April 3, 1999 Frank Coffman tells the story of when he photographed John Ramsey attacking him in Boulder, Colorado in 1998.


April 3, 1999 an Internet poster named Brenda confronted Judith Phillips on the air regarding

her selling JonBenet photos to the tabs http://webdollie.tripod.com/phillips.ram

April 19, 1999, Frank Coffman called into the show using the "Whispering Ed" anonymous persona to ask questions to Darney Hoffman that ended in a heated discussion on the air.



The Dave Lucas Radio Show

January 2, 1999 BNF Posting Comments



I like Jams......so flame me

matthews - 01:49pm Jan 2, 1999 MST

Thank GOD for the First Amendment !!!!

jameson is one of the most hated and attacked posters on this, The Jello Forum. When I first started posting here, I got in contact with a few people through e-mail. The BIG thing they would tell me about is "JAMESON", the legend and the myth. I was quite frankly bored and uninterested with the whole jameson phenomenon. I heard the tales of computer labs with RST working all day and night, how jameson was really John Andrew, Bynum, Lou Smit, and a pervert who's life's goal was to wander aimlessly through the Ramsey mansion while masturbating with a velvet sex glove (still trying to find THIS item ....only 357 shopping day till next Xmas.)

The mysterious entity, jameson, had said in a post once... "If you want to find out something, the best way is to just ask"

So I started e-mailing this corporate creation and asking "them" questions. I moved on to IM and eventually the phone with the now imfamous jameson. I found her to be very cordial and polite. I have had many conversations in length about a lot of things and views about life and with this case. I stated my POV, from the beginning ("WHAAAAAAAACKKKKK" is a Patsy induced sound effect.) she made clear her POV. Our personal opinions never stopped either of us from hearing the other out on a number of subjects. THAT is a mature thing IMO. I have thoroughly enjoy ALL conversations with her, as I find her to be very different from the "ProRamBorg" I've experienced on these forums.

I think she is sincere in her convictions as ProRam, and as I stated on the air, I find her vigilance to support her theories and her POV admirable. She does everything in her power (and to the thrill of the RST) to provide info THAT points to anyone but the Rams. Is she being used by them? Wouldn't you welcome someone like jams to defend you if the while county was against you? I would.

I don't know about the whole thing about "jam's lies" and "different people using the jamson hat" subject. No, I wasn't here for the beginning. I do know who jameson is now....I like THAT person. If you want to whine about someone's behavior two years ago...let me open this one for you all.... Two years ago I had a hellacious heroin habit. I had blown out all of my veins and any artery within a needle's reach. I was forced to "fix" through inter-muscular shots and on the rare occassions when I could find a jugular or corroted artery, you would find me at my bathroom mirror probing my neck with eine syringe for a "register."

The fact is...we ALL make mistakes and bad decisions. I find nothing wrong with THAT. I find it admirable to own up to these things and move on. I believe jameson has addressed and readdressed her early lies in chat. She said she lied...ABOUT TWO YEARS AGO. For JonBenet's sake folks, LET IT GO.

As far as the case goes... I find her views on Ramsey innocence rediculous. I think she doesn't look at things THAT point at the Ramseys because, like an anorexic person, she cannot bear to consider the possibility THAT those nice Ramseys could have killed their daughter, and is blinded to anything even suggesting this. She on the other hand feels THAT my insistance on "PATSY DID IT" falls under the catagory of "a media swayed sheep" or "BORG." That's cool... it is only our own POV on this case and each others's decision on choice of fence side... nothing more.



To Lance Matthews.....

auntiebj - 04:24pm Jan 12, 1999 MST

If you wanna dance, you have to pay the fiddler.


I think you are missing the boat here. You can hardly slam the poster who took the identity of Dminor on the Dave Lucas show for stating her POV other than she used a bogus hat. You sent out an e-mail plus posted on all the forums that the January show format had been changed and that it was as you put it in your e-mail as follows:

"In case you haven't visited the forums... Tonight's format has changed and the show is about YOU, the posters in the Internet subculture. I have only been online since Aug twenty-sixth, this year, and feel you have more to say 'bout this chit.....please call in!!!!"

When Dminor called in she was not out of control, she was not obnoxious, she was not vicious. She was calm and collected and she was voicing her POV and she had every right to do that as any other caller to the show. If you and Dave Lucas had a different format discussed prior to the show then that was something between you and Dave, not something all the Internet posters knew about. You angered a lot of the posters because you rubbed it in their faces that no matter what they said, no matter what they wanted to say, they were not allowed to say but you allowed your new friend to say whatever she wanted and because it was acceptable to you then it was okay to let her voice her POV.

Obviously many of them have a problem with Jameson and you knew that well in advance. You were playing with fire and you were protecting her. You knew somebody was going to get burnt. Then you came out on this forum half cocked with your hair trigger attitude and temper along with your girlfriend and used vulgar language and attacked people with a vengeance. You, yourself in the past instigated people in relation to Jameson then turned around after you made friends her and slammed others for doing just what you used to do on the forums.

Remember when you were on WebbSleuths along with Obsessor? Remember when you clearly slammed others with foul language horribly on this forum as they rubbed Obsessor in your face. You didn't like it and you couldn't understand their POV. If it had been Obsessor on the show would he have been allowed to voice his POV as you did with Jameson? You were showing favoritism Lance. You brought your new friend to the radio show and you allowed her all the air time YOU wanted her to have. And I am not saying she is not allowed her POV, she has as much right as everybody else does.

But the point is that everybody else did not have the right and you were blocking them. You were clearly bias. What you care about is promoting J.T.Colfax and now obviously Jameson. And you have every right to promote your two new friends. Who knows maybe Jameson can get you a spot on the new Crock. Another project, another gig. But don't drag all the other posters into your little show so you can make fun of them and use them and that is just what you did on all of your radio shows behind the scenes. And yes, you invited a lot of posters but ask yourself why many of them didn't show up on previous shows? Your shows had great promise but I think you let it go to your head with your obsession for control.

Then somebody hacked your web page. I am sorry that happened. But again you went off half cocked and using foul vulgar language and blaming several others on the BNF forum. You had no proof at the time you were pointing the finger. You still have no proof. You clearly pointed the finger in the beginning at both Wilton and Chris saying they were the only two who had your password then suddenly it became three people who had the password then a half a dozen who didn't have the password. Remember when you wanted me to work on your Colfax web page? I am sure glad you never gave me the password or I am sure I would be on the list too. Maybe you need to look in your own back yard and find out just who has had access to your computer system and your web page.


auntiebj - 09:56am Jan 13, 1999 MST (#39 of 40)

If you wanna dance, you have to pay the fiddler.

I will address this to Jameson since she felt it necessary to comment regarding my posting to Lance Matthews.

Jameson, you understood what Lance wanted you to understand about the radio show. He already told me he had a pre-arrangement with you prior to you coming on each and every radio show that he would "guarantee" that nobody would confront you. Now you tell me what is wrong with a confrontation regarding view points? Was he or you afraid that other posters would ask question you didn't want to answer? You want to voice your viewpoint and tell the world but you don't want anybody to dispute or confront any issue you post or talk about. It is called a debate Jameson. And if Lance had a prewritten list of question to ask everybody then how come he didn't ask you how you came up with the name of Jameson as a hat on the show as he asked everybody else that question? Was that just an oversight?

He plugged your TimeLine as the "Archive History" of the case and you know as well as everybody on these forums that your TimeLine is your POV. If you are passing off your TimeLine to screenwriters and movie producers and other media outlets then you are passing off your POV and at the top of your TimeLine you should clearly state that. When Beanie mentioned ReddHerrings website I didn't hear Lance or Dave jump on that as another good timeline that should be archived as a history record on the case. Last year when posters asked you about your personal involvement in the next documentary, you, yourself posted out on WS forum where you are the moderator the following on November eleventh last year ,

"The project is not about me as a poster, why I am following the case. It is not about "Ramsey Forums" or on-line wars. It is not about the TimeLine. None of these things deserve media attention, IMO. I wouldn't be involved if that was what they wanted."

So then why are you, yourself now plugging the TimeLine if you felt it does not deserve media attention? Why were you letting Matthews plug your TimeLine as an archived history on the case on a radio show that clearly went international via RealPlayer? You called several JW posters "Media W*ores" because they went on the Leeza show and other radio shows but then turned around and justified your own involvement in Lance's radio show and in this new project with Michael Tracy and David Mills where you are suppose to be the star of some new documentary on the case as acceptable and not in the same category as a "Media W*ores." Help me understand that?

The problem is that Lance did his homework for the show but the homework was YOU and your POV. He admitted he knew very little about the case so he should have had a opposition on the air with you who knew as much about the case as you did and that didn't include Pam Paugh or Linda McLean and you all shared the same POV. All good media shows have pro and con available on a subject at the same time. And no, I wouldn't have wanted to see a "Jerry Springer" type show either. It would have been a little hard for some posters to rip your eyes out on a radio show so I could understand you not appearing on a show where you might have physical contact with others who have a hostile attitude toward you.



auntiebj - 09:57am Jan 13, 1999 MST (#40 of 40)

If you wanna dance, you have to pay the fiddler.

Continued to Jameson……….

You, yourself got your little plug-in on the radio show insinuating that Justice watch posters are told what to post and that a person needs to be accepted to be a member. We are not told what to post. Good "Southern common sense" tells us what we should not post about. And let me tell you that I didn't know anybody on JW including the moderators of the site prior to registration and they didn't know me from a hill of beans and they never sent me e-mail, snail mail or contacted me via telephone as to who I was or what my POV was prior to be accepted. And Justice Watch has both Proram and Antiram posters as well as those who are neutral on the case.

One of the reasons Matthews did not show favoritism to JW is that he felt he was not treated favorable there as he had postings that were deleted and he had no problem whatsoever confronting China on that via the radio show to an international audience but he failed to mention that while he was on WS last fall that he was slammed and flamed horribly by your posters where you were the moderator and he had to literally get on the telephone with you and threaten you to delete the flaming postings. This is what I am talking about Jameson. Matthews was being bias and showed favoritism to you on the radio show because you are his friend this week, this month, maybe this year because for his own reasons has changed his POV after talking with you. And I don't have a problem with his friendship with you except that I don't want my e-mails to him forwarded to you as he forwarded yours to me in the past.

And yes, Dminor knew what she was doing. She stated that fact very clearly at the get go. Not many people knew what she was going to do prior to the show but it was no surprise once she was on the air. Like I said in my original posting here on this thread, Matthews knew well in advance what it was like out here on the forums and he knew who was on the whose negative list. He knew many posters had a problem with you for their own reasons. He was playing with fire and somebody was going to get burnt and it turned out to be Matthews and Lisa because they shoved you and your POV into everybody's faces who had a problem with you. Now you are on the "Matthew and Lisa pedestal" gleeing in your own ego that yet another group of people have shown you special attention..

In my opinion, Matthews and Lisa have become a valuable tool for you in your quest to promote your own Timeline and POV on the JonBenet Ramsey case. A case I feel you are entirely too personally involved with and as long as you remain in the postion you have taken, others on these forums will continue to do what they have done. You should be use to it and I don't see anything changing. And further in my opinion, is that you, yourself have been promoting your POV and your TimeLine for quite some time, long before Matthews or Lisa appeared on the scene. They have just served as your verbal voice to the world beyond the Internet so I think you could print a retraction on those original postings in your own words: "None of these things deserve media attention, IMO. I wouldn't be involved if that was what they wanted."


auntiebj - 07:07pm Jan 13, 1999 MST (#66 of 66)

If you wanna dance, you have to pay the fiddler.

Cecie, There is nothing to compute. Back in November, Lance used to post over on WS and was into a major confrontation with another poster hat named Obsessor. The flames were flying left and right for several days between the two and it appeared that many of the WS regular posters jumped on the act including the owner of the site slamming on Lance and taking this Obsessor's side. Jameson, the moderator of that forum, basically left the flaming threads there for most of the day until Lance seen them and called Jameson on the phone and demanded that she delete all the threads and she finally did. Obsessor continued posting at WS with the support of the WS management and other posters and Matthews returned to his forum of choice, BNF to flame Obsessor, Murphy and Nodules.

Then Matthews started posting on JW and for a while his posts seem to stay and were okay. For some reason he posts at JW started to disappear. In my opinion I think it was because of the Colfax threads he started that developed an attitude about it but I can't speak for the owners and moderators of JW as to his posts were being deleted but Matthews was not happy about it with just cause. In the meantime, Matthews and Jameson developed this relationship or friendship or whatever you want to call it.

Since I am not Matthews keeper I have no idea why or exactly when Matthews did the turn around and developed a change of heart regarding Murphy or this Nodules poster but he obviously did. But that is his personal preference. My personal opinion is that Matthews wanted to be friends with both sides which we can all see from the last couple weeks hasn't worked out too well. I honestly do not know what his relationship is with Chris from JW and/or this Andy poster and it does appear that there seems to be some tension between Beanie and Matthews but I do not know the story on that either.

On the Dminor radio call: I don't know the poster personally who called the show under the Dminor hat and had no idea what she was planning on doing prior to the show but she did clearly state her mission right at the beginning of the call. Opposed to what Matthews posted regarding the rules of the show with his saying he and Dave Lucas agreed on there being that no personal confrontations allowed, well that information was NOT what was emailed to me in a group e-mail which I assume this SamKay got along with all the other blind e-mail recipients nor was that posted out on any of the forums that I seen. The e-mail I received from Matthews read exactly as: "In case you haven't visited the forums...

Tonight's format has changed and the show is about YOU, the posters in the Internet subculture. I have only been online since Aug twenty-sixth, this year, and feel you have more to say 'bout this chit.....please call in!!!!" I can't speak for SamKay's decision to do what she did. It looked to me that Dminor called to give HER POV and that is what she did. In my opinion as a bystander is that SamKay should not have been blasted regarding her call to the show. She obviously took what Matthews wrote in the e-mail as her being allowed to call and give her POV and her POV just happened to be her personal desire to inform others of her personal opinion about Jameson. I am not saying she was right or wrong for doing it but she had as much right to call the show as any other caller. And like Lee Harvey Oswald, I guess SamKay as Dminor acted alone but I am sure there will be conspiracy theories down the road.


auntiebj - 04:19pm Jan 14, 1999 MST (#31 of 36)

If you wanna dance, you have to pay the fiddler.


I was going to answer your posting comments here today but actually Ginji said almost all of it for me. I don't think I could have topped her posting. And I do understand the position you put yourself in. Between J.T. Colfax and Jameson, you are dealing with two very high controversial people here and with both there is a very large audience of people with negative opinions about them.

One last thing I want to say and just kind of tucked this under your belt and think about it now and then. Your anger at Dminor IMHO was a compound issue between your attempt to control your allegiance to keep your promise to Jameson not to be confronted on the air and your dislike for the past history of SamKay when she was under a different hat. You didn't even know her then yet you are judging her totally by what others are saying about her. Maybe they are true and maybe they are not. Yet on the other hand you can't understand why others have a problem with the past history they had with Jameson that is creating all their anger. Maybe what they are saying is true and maybe it is not. The point here is, that you sometimes have to walk in others shoes to see and understand how they feel. There goes those shoes again.......



lflowers - 06:33pm Jan 13, 1999 MST (#60 of 66)

"if you want to find out who your friends are, go to a madhouse or to jail" Charles Bukowski

Listen carefully...you people need to understand that this is the DAVE LUCAS show.There are RULES OF CONDUCT,determined by WROW's program director, that must NECESSARILY be followed on the air.It was very clearly specified that the show in question remain a NON confrontational one; to reinterate what Lance has attempted to explain many times now. Please also try to realize that we've been dealing with some very high profile case people here who are NOT necessarily at legal liberty to take spontaneous questions from the public. This has nothing to do with your personal beliefs about Ramsey guilt or innocence...it isn't about conspiracy theories, or favorotism, or one side being given preference over another...it's reality; and it's the way it is. Dave's show is not your stomping ground.

As far as Jameson's setting forth the predetermined conditions of her appearance; well, so what? She was a guest. She did US a favor....not the other way around. She didn't ask us to come on....we asked her. So why is it so difficult for some of you to grasp the concept of her wanting to insure a flame free appearance?

I'm going to point it out again: some of the people involved in this case may or may not be in a legal position to answer certain questions. There's technical aspects to take into consideration here. Please consider this point before you start complaining about being denied ACCESS.



jameson_ - 09:48pm Jan 13, 1999 MST (#83 of 83)


I don't watch much TV but I do know how some talk shows are run. I watched how Pam and Linda were treated on Leeza. I talked to both of them after the show and they are sorry they made the effort to be heard in that format. I had never heard the Erin Hart show but I have heard the Peter Boyles show and I know how he treats HIS guests - especially those he disagrees with. Why would any sane person volunteer to do THAT to themselves? I certainly would NOT.

Lance approached me and said he wanted a show with both sides represented. I said no, thanks. He persisted. What were my concerns? He really wanted both sides there. I told him my concerns. I would not go on a show where I would be cut short or screamed over. I would not enter a "pis*ing contest" with the forum flamers. I was willing to go on and talk to him, I was not interested in talking to people like Beanie and gsquared.

You have a problem with that? Tough.

And yes, Lance did announce early in the shows that they were to be respectful, informational and not confrontational.

You ask why he didn't ask where the name "jameson" came from. I don't know. I would have answered. No secret. Um - was it because I am John Ramsey and my father's name was James? or was it really that I am John Ramsey and JA (is) ME SON ? Maybe it was because we live near BURKE County! Seriously, it is the same name I used for years, well before the murder. Nothing "Ramsey" about it.

You said, " you are passing off your POV and at the top of your TimeLine you should clearly state that." I do, quite clearly. Official documents are in blue. News reports are in black and my personal comments are in brown. Perhaps you should read before you criticize.

change to: As far as what Dave or Lance said about the Redd Herring site - I don't tell Dave or Lance what to say............I do believe Lance had said that his favorite site WAS the Redd Herring site. He said he "thought it was the best Ramsey site."


jameson_ - 09:53pm Jan 13, 1999 MST (#84 of 84)


You said, "Last year when posters asked you about your personal involvement in the next documentary, you, yourself posted ...... "The project is not about me as a poster, why I am following the case. It is not about "Ramsey Forums" or on-line wars. It is not about the TimeLine. None of these things deserve media attention, IMO. I wouldn't be involved if that was what they wanted." This is true - the documentary is not about me or the TimeLine. We are involved, but not the subject. The post was a response to many flame posts demanding to know why I was the subject of a documentary - why wasn't anyone else called. Well, I am NOT the subject of the documentary.

You ask why I am "plugging the TimeLine". Well, why not? I didn't say it doesn't deserve media attention. I said it wasn't the basis for the documentary.

You want an explanation from me as to why I went on Dave Lucas' show after criticizing the "Snoop Sisters" for going on Leeza? Nope, I owe you no explanation. I have my reasons and owe no one an accounting.

You wanted a show with both POV represented? Mrs. Brady was on, Chris was on, Dr. Hodges was on, Darnay Hoffman was on, The "lie guy" was on. I think the show was balanced. I appreciate the fact that it was a controlled show. Everyone had his/her time to speak unmolested. Apparently, you like confrontational shows. I don't. I rather listen to everyone speak so I can decide for myself what they have to offer.

You said I am too involved with this case. OK, whatever.

You don't like me promoting my TimeLine or POV. OK, I can live with that.

I do not owe anyone here an explanation. And I am not about to start pretending I do.



jameson_ - 05:28pm Jan 12, 1999 MST (#6 of 9)


I understood that everyone was going to be invited on the program to discuss their own involvement on the net. Basically there was a list of questions that Claudia and Chris answered and I was asked the same questions. I understood that the different forums and their flavors would be discussed. Nothing wrong with that. But I also understood that it was not going to be a "Jerry Springer" type show where there would be lies and accusations against other posters.

I agreed to go on a show that was informational, not confrontational. Dminor was calling into the confrontational show and knew just what she was doing.




matthews - 12:31am Jan 14, 1999 MST

Deleted byline after reading spencer's postings

"You can hardly slam the poster who took the identity of Dminor on the Dave Lucas show for stating her POV other than she used a bogus hat. "

No, I slammed her because she upset me by being confrontational and changing the mood and direction of the show.

"When Dminor called in she was not out of control, she was not obnoxious, she was not vicious. She was calm and collected and she was voicing her POV and she had every right to do that as any other caller to the show. "

I believe she was calm and presented what she had to say in a rational manor.... However, she was voicing her POV about a person...not the forums or the internet. Say "Jameson's Timeline is crap and all lies," and THAT would be O.K. by the shows format, but say "Jameson this... and Jameson that," NO. Which brings me to the next one...

"If you and Dave Lucas had a different format discussed prior to the show then that was something between you and Dave, not something all the Internet posters knew about. "

We did tell everyone in chat before the show. Chris, Jams, a few others and I all met in chat the night before and chatted about the show. I should've posted it more clearly.

"You angered a lot of the posters because you rubbed it in their faces that no matter what they said, no matter what they wanted to say, they were not allowed to say but you allowed your new friend to say whatever she wanted and because it was acceptable to you then it was okay to let her voice her POV. "

I wouldn't have wanted ANYONE to say ANYTHING bad about another poster on the show. THAT was what we meant by NON CONFRONTATIONAL.

"Obviously many of them have a problem with Jameson and you knew that well in advance. Yes. You were playing with fire and you were protecting her. You knew somebody was going to get burnt. Then you came out on this forum half cocked with your hair trigger attitude and temper along with your girlfriend and used vulgar language and attacked people with a vengeance. "

I came back here and was attacked.... go see the times of the posts.

"If it had been Obsessor on the show would he have been allowed to voice his POV as you did with Jameson? "

Yes, he would. As long as he remained coherent and didn't verbally flame anyone. I would have him on and let him talk about how he thinks Colfax is the perp if he wanted... just nothing about other posters. cont......


matthews - 12:32am Jan 14, 1999 MST (#1 of 1)

Deleted byline after reading spencer's postings

"You were showing favoritism Lance. You brought your new friend to the radio show and you allowed her all the air time YOU wanted her to have. And I am not saying she is not allowed her POV, she has as much right as everybody else does. But the point is that everybody else did not have the right and you were blocking them. You were clearly bias."

Ma Brady and Chris had airtime.... so we have Me and Ma and Chris....Beanie in the wings waiting to come on the show....and you are complaining about the show being biased??? ONE ProRam came on the show and the rest of the show was ALL anti-Rams cast for the evening and this is biased??? Yes, it was...it was unbalanced and mostly anti-Ram, IMO. What are you saying here? Because people couldn't confront Jameson on the air....it was a baised show?......AND ...NO, everyone did not have the "right" to state their POV. You are subjected to the rules of the FCC and the station and subjected to the formatting laid out by the programing director and the wishes of the host. When you were on with jams the first show you described it as "like getting invited to a dog fight and then finding out one of the dogs was a princess." The tone of how you view actually getting a chance to say what you always wanted to to jameson, is very apparent in THAT sentence. Just say you are now upset cause jameson didn't get slaughtered on the show.

"What you care about is promoting J.T.Colfax and now obviously Jameson. And you have every right to promote your two new friends. "

I will keep on promoting J.T. and I will keep on being true to people I consider to be friends of mine. As far as promoting Jams.... I will stick up for someones RIGHTS to express "the other side of the fence" everytime. I might hate what they have to say and believe in the complete opposite, but I have to back their RIGHT to voice their opinions.

"He already told me he had a pre-arrangement with you prior to you coming on each and every radio show that he would "guarantee" that nobody would confront you. Now you tell me what is wrong with a confrontation regarding view points? Was he or you afraid that other posters would ask question you didn't want to answer?"

Just wanted to avoid a Jerry Springer show.

"And if Lance had a prewritten list of question to ask everybody then how come he didn't ask you how you came up with the name of Jameson as a hat on the show as he asked everybody else that question? Was that just an oversight? "

Yes actually it was an oversight... and jameson was teasing you on the other thread.... I asked her about THAT a while ago.... simple answer THAT could be verified.....JAMESON was used because it is the name of her registered home school....In NC, when you teach your kids at home you need to register your home school with the state, to be accredited. Since her two boys would be home schooled...she combined her husbands name (James) and the fact THAT her two sons would attend (Son) and put it together... JAMESON Home School..... Simple.


matthews - 12:37am Jan 14, 1999 MST (#4 of 5)

Deleted byline after reading spencer's postings

"When Beanie mentioned ReddHerrings website I didn't hear Lance or Dave jump on that as another good timeline that should be archived as a history record on the case. "

BJ, When you get the tapes..listen... I did say THAT I thought the Redd Herring site was the best...and I do!

"The problem is that Lance did his homework for the show but the homework was YOU and your POV. He admitted he knew very little about the case so he should have had a opposition on the air with you who knew as much about the case as you did and that didn't include Pam Paugh or Linda McLean and you all shared the same POV. "

I had no opposing people on with Dr. Hodges or Darnay either.

"All good media shows have pro and con available on a subject at the same time. "

First time trying to organize something like that... and maybe if the next one goes through as planned we will "team up" opposites...(there is only 2 "live" lines into the airwaves at the studio.) I think you are right in this sentence.... I though Beanie did well with Pam, though... AND Pam was great with the whole show. (I'd like to see her face off with McCrary or Dr.Hodges)

"And no, I wouldn't have wanted to see a "Jerry Springer" type show either."

What the hell do you think woulda' happened if callers could've confront jameson on the air???...... Answer: Springer without the visual...imo.

"One of the reasons Matthews did not show favoritism to JW is that he felt he was not treated favorable there as he had postings that were deleted and he had no problem whatsoever confronting China on that via the radio show "

Nor problems confronting Chris on THAT either.... Ask her if you like... I mentioned it to her a few times...she checked around and said no one deleted it.


matthews - 12:37am Jan 14, 1999 MST (#5 of 6)

Deleted byline after reading spencer's postings

"And I don't have a problem with his friendship with you except that I don't want my e-mails to him forwarded to you as he forwarded yours to me in the past."

When I first was e-mailing Jameson, I found it facinating THAT everything I would mail to the jameson addy would come back twisted into a proRam thing. I would mail of reasons I thought they did it and mail would come back refuting everything and showing how it would all fit into ProRam logic. I sent you and about 4 others that one e-mail saying something like "Hey guys, I can use your help on this". In the letter was about 9 points That I was arguing with jams and needed some "heavier guns" to help prove a reasonable suspicion of Ramsey guilt to the "jameson spin machine"... I heard a lot of stories about jameson and decided to find out what jameson was for myself. I told her what I had done with the e-mail in one of our first verbal conversations. I formulate my opinions on my own. I tried to put different POV's aside and see a person behind all the hoopla on the forum. I succeeded.

"And yes, Dminor knew what she was doing. She stated that fact very clearly at the get go. Not many people knew what she was going to do prior to the show but it was no surprise once she was on the air. Like I said in my original posting here on this thread, Matthews knew well in advance what it was like out here on the forums and he knew who was on the whose negative list. He knew many posters had a problem with you for their own reasons. He was playing with fire and somebody was going to get burnt and it turned out to be Matthews and Lisa because they shoved you and your POV into everybody's faces who had a problem with you."

Shoved her POV in everybodies faces????.... An unbiased show would've been what then....NO ProRams, as opposed to the ONE ProRam we had on? Or best to save her for last so she gets to conclude the show and in one sweeping sentence, she negates all the AntiRam POV? I put Ma on... Then Chris.... then Jams... What else could I have done? I feel ,like this is all because I tried not to have anyone say anything bad about anyone else that was on the show...

Confrontation example.... You could've told Dr.Hodges or Linda THAT their books suck and are crap....BUT you coudn't have said THAT They (Dr.Hodges or Linda) suck or are crap.




ginja - 11:00am Jan 14, 1999 MST (#19 of 20)

Ohhh what a tangled web....

Matty, Matty, Matty, did you really tell beanie to "get that kunt"!!!! The meds have worn off, buddy....here goes. The topic of the show was the "internet subculture". That "subculture" revolves around the "warring" factions in that the subculture is comprised of three groups: the pro-Rams, the anti-Rams, and the fencesitters. A well-balanced program would have put those three factions to the test. Fencesitters are basically neutral, so the validity of argument would have been between the pros and antis. The host's position would be to pull out the differences of opinion between the two factions. And those differences would have to be validated. On that, the show failed on all counts.

Lucas sat back and let you "control" the format. But you went further and "manipulated" it. What I mean is, is that the "host" would open the show with a brief outline that there's a subculture, it's made up of this and that, and then he'd open the lines for the "factions" to take the reins and keep the show moving. The "host" sits back and basically referees...he doesn't take over and take most of the air time to voice his own POV. If, and when, the callers get out of hand, go off topic, defame others, or out-and-out lie, then the host should come back and bring order.

The problem I saw that night was that "you" controlled not only the show's format, but the callers. It was not yours, or even Dave Lucas' , position to "avoid" confrontation. You put Jameson on...great achievement, congratulations...I take nothing away from you for doing that. And you let Jams continue with her POV. Fine, too. But the real problem you avoided and refused to tackle, was her credibility and the validity of her comments.

The reason why there are two different sides to this fence is because there are different POVs of the facts! It's one thing to get on the air and say the Rams aren't guilty because the caller doesn't believe the Rams capable of murder. But what of the actual facts! There's no credibility or validity to that statement. And when someone like Jameson is put to the test to validate her comments, her response is "I can't divulge that." That's neither credible nor validating.

DMinor's call was to force validity and credibility of an issue. You have hundreds of people listening in on a show that's telling them that this person (Jameson) is valid and credible and that if she says or claims the Rams are innocent, they believe it carte blanche, because she "sounds" credible and what the hell, she's on a radio show. DMinor's call was necessary to point to the fact that Jameson's claims "weren't" valid or credible, or, at the very least, shouldn't be accepted as carte blanche.

I've listened to the tapes of the night I was on and can't believe so much was said and I didn't comment. Being sick and on meds isn't a good time to be making any statements on live radio, for sure! :-) I think, god! how did I let Lance get away with that! or why didn't I come back with this or that! For what it's worth, if I had been well and straight, you'd have had more to contend with than a phone call from DMinor!

So anyway, interested in doing this again with a straight, healthy kunt?


Lance Matthews Solution To the problems on

The Boulder News Forum (BNF)

On The JonBenet Discussion Board

A Special Discussion on the Dave Lucas Radio Show

February 16, 1999 ~ 1:00am-3:00am EST

Listen to the RealAudio files and

Read part 1 thru 7 written transcripts of this show



02-15-1999 Show Commentary

The following sections of this radio show were recorded live off the Internet from radio station WROW Albany, New York on Monday night, February 15, 1999.

Host was Dave Lucas with guest Lance Matthews. Lance Matthews was an Internet poster who often filled the role of guest host on the radio show. Lance was activily promoting J.T. Colfax, a Boulder County jail inmate at the time with daily postings on the Boulder News Forum where many regular members voiced unwelcomed interactive forum discussions. Lance was also promoting Colfax as part of the Dave Lucas scheduled radio show in a series discussing inmates on the web.

The regular members of the BNF were in a major forum war with Lance Matthews that started in the fall of 1998 and continued for three months. That war included the hacking of the J.T. Colfax web site by unidentified persons and the infighting was vicious and malicious from both sides. I was an active member on the Boulder News forum from July 1998 through May 1999 and was witness to the events as well as being the one responsible for recording the live audio of the Dave Lucas show. Those live radio shows were encoded into realaudio by me personally and are part of this Webdollie realaudio series documenting the history of the Internet subculture following this case.

This particular scheduled live radio show was unique in that it was announced at the spare of the moment by Matthews on the BNF as a show for the members of the forum to call into the radio show that night to discuss the problems that were occuring on the BNF. From postings by members on the BNF it was apparent that nobody was interested in calling into the show with the main reason being over a posting Matthews did called "Madkowz's Valentine Special." The posting Matthews did was filty and vile and posters vowed never to return to the Dave Lucas show if Matthews was on the air.

This was the posting that Matthews put on the BNF to announce the show:


"matthews - 02:43am Feb 15, 1999 MST

Thank GOD for the first amendment!!!!

In an effort to return the BNF forum to a reasonable place to dicuss the JBR case... Dave Lucas will host an on air discussion on the JBR forum on BNF. Gary Love has been invited and will hopefully answer questions from us all. The discussion will start at 11:OO MST tonight. Chat will be open for those who prefer to talk via their keyboards. Thank you for reading this, Lance"

The radio show went on the air at 1:00am EST as scheduled and a few posters appeared in the WROW chat room as I set up to record the show from my home. I typed up an e-mail to Lance that contained my opinion of what had been going on. Shortly afterward Lance brought another Internet poster name Jameson on the air. Jameson is well known as a die-hard Pro-Ramsey supporter and was not very well liked by a large percent of the Internet community. Jameson always quoted that others didn't like her because she defended the Ramseys but many voiced a different story and contributed the dislike to Jameson's past history on the forums where they accused her of being deceitful surrounding tales of gender confusion to out right lies and many believed she was part of the RST (Ramsey Spin Team.)

In addition to the poster fighting over Matthews force feeding J.T. Colfax down their throats, he also took up for Jameson and basically promoted her on several previous shows referencing her often as the Internet authority and archivist on the case so it wasn't a surprise when Lance brought Jameson online this night in what was obviously to many as a teaming up for the anticipted incoming calls.

Lance and Jameson were talking about the murder case and of course Jameson was talking as though she is the authority and she went from talking about errors in Larry Schiller's new book and that she had one full chapter of the book for quite some time she said prior to the book being released. Jameson also talked about the mysterous bear that was photographed on JonBenet's bed but said nobody in the family ever seen the bear before except Pam Paugh stated she did see the bear when she went to the house shortly after the murder. Jameson also stated that the friends the Ramsey's who were called that morning of December 26th were called to bring the ransom money over and she said that included the Reverend.

Forty-five minutes to an hour had passed and still no incoming callers to discuss the situation on the BNF. The conversation continued between Lance and Jameson as Jameson explained to Dave Lucus how she happened to be allowed to tour the Ramsey Boulder house in October 1998 and from there she went on to explain where she got the stun gun theory. From Lou Smit, of course.

Finally some posters in the WROW chat room began making references to the "Madkowz's Valentine Special" posting Lance did on the BNF but Lance basically blows off the reference and changes the subject back to Jameson talking about the intruder theory. She talks about the house, the size, the doors, windows, the sound experiments she and others did and then she got to the ransom note which she believe the killer only wrote as a part of his fantasy because he had nothing else to do.

Then Jameson goes into her college frat boy theory and uses the name "Wilton" as this sicko perp who she suggests killed JonBenet. What the listening audience doesn't know is that Jameson and another poster on the BNF named "Wilton" were once friends and then became flaming forum enemies because of some information that Wilton disputed that he claimed Jameson told him about some child pornography found on the Interent that Jameson turned over to the BPD with suggestions that the child was the daughter of the Ramsey housekeeper and that the rapist was the child's father.

In addition Lance was on the outs with "Wilton" also and blamed him for the hacking of the J.T. Colfax web site. So the relationship between both Lance and Wilton and Jameson and Wilton was not good and it was quite obvious the digs toward the name Wilton were done in a silent harassing manner even though the theme of the show this night was suppose to be Lance Matthew's solution to the BNF problems. Then suddenly Lance decided to read the e-mail on the air that I sent to him earlier that evening. From there the discussion of the case ceased and Lance began talking about the BNF and how nasty and vile posting were. What he didn't tell was that many of the postings were also done by him under the various faux hats he created.

Another poster Lance had targeted was known as "Gsquared" and he began talking about her and some things he said she had done to him but he did not admit what he had done to her on the forum. A poster named "Kira" in the WROW chat room kept making reference to Lance's "Valentine" postings and he finally referenced it as how he likes to use colorful language sometimes and he downplayed the little character he called "Madkowz" as just a little character he used to tell the Valentine Day story about a trip to Tijuana and he end that with, "it was really fun." The rest of the BNF posters did not think it was fun and several posters who were in another IRC chatroom at the same time the show was on were talking about how they couldn't stand Matthews and the lies they said he was telling on the air.

The facts were that both Wilton and Gsquared were so desparate to stop Lance from his attacks that they threatened to contact his parole officer which Lance used on the radio show as an example of how the BNF posters were out to get him. From there both Lance and Jameson joined in to tell Dave Lucas how each was used and abused on the BNF. Jameson told the story of how somebody obtained the obiturary of her deceased brothers, one that died in 1966 and another in 1990. She claimed that others posted the names of the four sons of her brother that died in 1990. Jameson then volunteered that she walked away from her family twenty two years prior and has had nothing to do with any of them since.

Lance then began telling the story of his ex-girlfriend, Liz who over-dosed on Heroin and died in the fall of 1998. He was blaming the posters on the BNF for dragging his deceased girlfriend onto the forums but in fact it was one of the origninal WebbSleuths posters where Jameson was moderator who posted accusing Matthews of killing his girlfriend by suggesting he sold her the Heroin that caused the over-dose.

Both Lance and Jameson continued for some time talking about the poster named "Gsquared" and from there Lance talked about the corpse photos that belonged to J.T. Colfax and it was well known that Lance's intentions was to publish the corpse photo's on the web. He talked about it on the radio station on previous shows as well as on the BNF. Many were against him doing that and voice strong opinions on the issue.

Finally three o'clock in the morning rolls around and the first and only Internet caller was announced by Dave Lucas as, "Hello coward, identify yourself?" The caller was LoriAnn who said she was calling from Memphis, Tennessee who immediately lets Lance know she is aware he is playing the victim. LoriAnn admitted she was the one who posted the "wheel of misfortune" thread that expose personal information about Lance and his mother. She said she did it after she started getting telephone calls from Lance, she claimed who threatened her that he was going to pass her personal information onto some convicts. Lance denied calling her house.

LoriAnn then went into detail regarding a previous aired show on Dave Lucas where she was cut off the line by Lance's live-in girlfriend, Lisa Flowers and that she felt it was done intentially when Lisa found out that LoriAnn's intentions were to confront Jameson. That show was from January 1st and was also the time Samantha, using the "Dminor" hat called in to confront Jameson and called Jameson a liar on the air. Lance began to downplay the particular scene LoriAnn was talking about saying the end of that show was suppose to be about J.T. Colfax which wasn't true and in fact the show announcement clearly said it was to be on the Internet subculture.

That really was the night, January 1, 1999 when the first blood was drawn and the BNF war broke out. The seeded anger behind Lance's protecting Jameson on the air set the stage for a war that last until May 18, 1999 when the BNF was finally closed. Dave Lucas covered for Lance and both continued to downplay the incident that angered LoriAnn to begin with. LoriAnn informed both Dave and Lance that she was the head nurse, a registered nurse at a hospital and then LoriAnn and Lance get into it over who was the worst at flaming and causing trouble. LoriAnn said she only called in to let Lance and the listening audience know that Lance was trying to play the victim and that that Lance was as big a trouble maker on the BNF as were others.

Three thirty rolls around and even though Lance has vowed off on the air from flaming other posters he started again on Gsquared and Wilton and suggesting that threats were made to deliberatly violate J.T. Colfax's probation. The show finally ends with Jameson going on and on about the grand jury and Michael Kane, the one she calls, "the special persecutor."


June 11, 2001

Dave Lucas Radio Show (WROW Radio)

February 16, 1999 ~ 1:00am-3:00am EST

Lance Matthews Solution to the problems on the Boulder News Forum (BNF)


Transcribed by ACandyRose


And Dave Lucas's Commentary

Dave Lucas

Over two years have passed since the tragic death of little JonBenet Ramsey. And in that time many subcultures of discussions have sprung up and one of these subcultures is going to be the top of our discussion this segment of the program. We are talking about the Boulder News JonBenet murder discussion forum which is on the Internet. Now I wasn't there in the beginning. Matter a fact I had just begun reading there when I had a chance meeting with a young man named Lance Matthews and he recommended that I check it out. Now since that day I've visited the forum on several occasions, I've watched the topic of threads ranging from serious discussions on aspects of the murder to vicious personal attacks on other posters characters and I've even seen "net rage," people encouraging others to reach pass their computers and actually try and harm other people at their places of employment and even in their homes.

Now ladies and gentlemen it is sickening to see a forum that is suppose to be a discussion about a murderred child turn into such an abuse of freedom of speech and such an abuse of something like the Boulder News Forum. I have seen the forum due to this abuse and recently it was opened again. The funny thing is that the same folks whined and whales and cried and complained about the forums closing are the same people who made a mockery of the case and abused this venue of expression once again so during this segment of our program tonight. WROW welcomes all posters and lurkers from the Boulder News Forum on the Internet to join us in an on-air discussion of this particular forum and it's future applications in the justice for JonBenet Ramsey and their are many forums on the Internet where people can go and speak their mind and you know what, a lot of times you get nitwits and idiots who just like to get on there and I guess they got nothing better to do. They are tired of being on all those sex channels, you know sixty year old men pretending they are thirteen year old girls and that sort of folks so they come and try and trash forums and other places of meaningful discussion on the Internet and this gives the Internet a bad name and it really takes down these great forums and these great places of discussion.

It is like having a town drunk wander into an old town square meeting in the days of your. Totally ruins everything. So if your out there on the Internet listening tonight and especially if you've been posing or lurking on the Boulder News Forum, you are welcome to give us a call. The 800 number for those of you out there on the world wide wake is 1-800-WROW590. Folks who are local can reach us 476-5959. If your in your car it's #590 and everyone your welcome to call, we would like to hear from you so we got a few different issues here, we've got JonBenet Ramsey, the murder case and if you were listening to the CBS radio news at midnight you heard about a new development there. We are also talking about the Internet and one of the big travesties on the Internet, these people who come along and trash forums and chat rooms and close them down and ruin it for the people there for legitimate discussion and expression and joining us right now by telephone we have Lance Matthews. Hi Lance


Lance Matthews: Hey Dave, how is it going?

Dave Lucas: Pretty good, now Lance, now Lance right now is in the WROW chat room monitoring what's going on there. What is going on in the chat room Lance?

Lance Matthews: Oh just the usual BS, just people talking back and forth

Dave Lucas: How many people are logged in right now?

Lance Matthews: Right now it's a tiny crowd Dave, we only have, let's see, eight and there is even a mysterious CaptainNLSmith who just lurking.

Dave Lucas: So we have some people on there.

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah.

Dave Lucas: And I, I guess that people know about this that there was a posting on the Boulder News Forum that told them that this was going to happen and again we do welcome anyone locally who wants to call in that has a grip about the Internet and about some of the things that go on there because this discussion indeed is about abuse. It is really sickening to see people abuse some of the fine things and as a matter of fact let my digress for a moment, there are also people out there who have nothing better to do than to play hacker and sometimes they even go in and destroy other people's web sites and that is totally, I mean that is unpardonable in my way of thinking. First of all Lance, I think the Internet should be free. I don't think we should have to pay to get on the Internet unless of course your using Road Runner because it's so darn fast, it's, I mean after all the frustration in waiting, forty bucks a months is a small price to pay for having the Internet virtually, I mean really at your fingertips, to have screens explode before you and milliseconds, it is truly amazing.

Lance Matthews: You know, you know what's funny about that too, eh, a ridiculous post on BNF recently is why I use a Road Runner service and it's kind of funny because if you add it up Dave, if your gonna pay for basic cable, if you live where I do you get one channel and that's blurry. You have to pay for basic cable anyway that's gonna to be something like twenty something dollars and then your going to pay for your monthly and then another phone line if you want a free phone line. So you go on Road Runner, it's forty bucks and you got the whole deal. They give you basic cable for free, that's hooked up to my TV now, I'm on the Internet through cable and my phone's free.

Dave Lucas: And your always on the Internet, you never have to get off.

Lance Matthews: Yeah that's true.

Dave Lucas: That's the truly amazing part of it. You don't have to worry about your dial up connection dropping out, you don't have to worry about getting off the phone to pick up messages or whatever, your just there all the time, you turn on the computer or leave on the computer and Road Runner is there.

Lance Matthews: Oh, you know what you said earlier about the chat room? About, you know, it is kind of funny because some people were saying oh you know we'll protest the show and we won't show up in chat but the funny thing is that somebody let me know that most of the people that said that are over in a different chat room listening to the show anyway.

Dave Lucas: So they are chatting anyway so they are doing it in a place all their own.

Lance Matthews: A big WHATEVER to those people.

Dave Lucas: What's this now, now as I mentioned to the audience at the twelve o'clock CBS news and they may repeat it at two o'clock, I don't know but there was a, and I didn't catch the whole thing because I was busy doing some other stuff but they did mention something on the JonBenet Ramsey case and about a new book.

Lance Matthews: Boy, eh, you must be talking about Schiller's book. Yeah, this guy wrote a book and it's coming out.

Dave Lucas: Something about fibers.

Lance Matthews: Oh, the book is coming out on Thursday and it's a big thing. You know a lot of people are wondering about this book and they are putting pages up on, on different web sites, on different newspapers reporting, excerpts from it and there are a lot of interesting things coming out in this book. I should be, it suppose to be gonna be not, there telling it, they saying it going to be like really earth shattering, all the information they give on this book.

Dave Lucas: Really?

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah ! So I hope to read it, I will be there on Thursday picking it up also.

Dave Lucas: Now in one of those tabloids and I don't remember which one but da I stopped into Price Chopper this evening on my way here and there was something about JonBenet's mother did it or something like that. I didn't, I didn't, I was going to grab the tabloid but I was in a hurry and I didn't. Have you seen that one? I think it was the Enquirer.

Lance Matthews: Oh you know the tabloids are ridiculous, we've had the Burke did it, mommy confesses, throw the gay photographer from next door under the bus, I mean it, the tabloids are ridiculous. As far as the book goes Dave, and my physic sense tells me you have another caller, at least I have it on the chat log that's there is another caller there.

Dave Lucas: We do, we do indeed.

Lance Matthews: I believe this caller can answer a lot of questions about the book themselves, a lot better than I could.

Dave Lucas: Okay, caller, can you do that for us?

Jameson: Maybe, this is Jameson.

Dave Lucas: Hello Jameson

Jameson: Can you hear me?

Dave Lucas: We hear you fine.

Jameson: Okay

Lance Matthews: Hi Jams

Jameson: Hi. Yeah, I know a little bit about the book. I talk to Lawrence Schiller a few times about it and I know that a year an a half ago he was working on this book in October 1997 and he was interviewing a lot of people in Boulder and when they were hesitate to speak he would say to them, "You know, don't worry about it the book is not going to be coming out till February or March of 1999," and it seemed so far away that the people opened up and talked to him and told him things because they felt that the case would basically be over by February or March of 1999. And what happened is that some of them told things and now they are kind of sorry that they did because information is coming out and the investigation is still at the point it's at they are panicking because it's not time for them to come out and say these things but the book is out anyway and a lot of things are going to be revealed that are the timing is really strange and questionable and that's why the Tv shows are going crazy.

Dave Lucas: Now, Lance and Jameson, a lot of people in the listening audience they are not on the web as much perhaps as much as they would like to be for various reasons and probably a lot of them don't check the latest news on the JonBenet Ramsey case. Is there anything that is new, that is earth shaking that is in the timetable or in the timeline that is something that we don't know or haven't heard yet. How is it progressing with this trial or hearing or whatever is going on there, we just get no news about it.

Jameson: You want to go with it Lance?

Lance Matthews: No, please, take it away.

Jameson: Okay. Well, there is two camps. One of them is the Anti-Ramsey's and they have an awful lot of speakers on their side so we hear a lot about evidence that the Ramsey's probably did it. They were sleeping in the house that night. Their investigators haven't name another killer. There are fiber's on the tape that may be from Patsy's jacket that she wore when she tucked the child in bed that night. But what they don't talk about is the fact that there is foreign DNA in her panties that is mixed with her blood from when she was sexually assaulted that night and I don't know where they think the parents got foreign DNA when they murdered her at midnight. Did they go to the drugstore and order it? I don't, they don't talk about that. They don't talk about the fact of the teddy bear, they just kind of say that's not important but the teddy bear, the family never saw the teddy bear before the murder. The housekeeper never saw the teddy bear before the murder. Nobody who had even been in the house before the murder saw the teddy bear and it shows up after the murder on the child's bed and now it is missing. You know, is it important or not? The people who are against the Ramsey's want to not talk about evidence that looks for an intruder.

Lance Matthews: Your saying that nobody saw the teddy bear before the murder?

Jameson: Right, absolutely. The housekeeper said……

Lance Matthews: And now it is mysteriously gone?

Jameson: Well it was photographed by the police when they took pictures of the crime scene. It is clearly photographed on the bed. The police didn't show the crime scene photos to the Ramsey's, not….Because they were suspects.

Dave Lucas: Now since that time wasn't the house packed up and everything?

Jameson: Well the Ramsey's didn't get the house back for ten days.

Lance Matthews: Okay

Jameson: When the Ramsey's got the house back, they never went back into the house. They had some movers pack the house up for them. How do you say it, not certified but em, and there is no, nobody can find the doll now. The police say they don't have it but is it like the flashlight, was it taken and not and you know….

Lance Matthews: I mean do you think that every single thing in that house was documented as they removed it that they took and logged every painting, every every toothbrush? Are you saying they logged everything that was taken out of the house when they pack up and moved?

Jameson: No but they don't remember packing it and the Ramsey's don't have it.

Lance Matthews: Boy I don't remember what I had for breakfast the other day so I.

Jameson: You know I wouldn't even remember to be honest with you if you packed up my kids toys for two years and then brought them out I would probably look at some of them and go what cause I don't remember that.

Lance Matthews: I think the bear is a complete ruse.

Jameson: But the bear is a Santa Clause teddy bear and I think if you talk to most people, Santa Clauses, even teddy bear Santa Clause's are not around in June and July. You pack them up with Christmas decorations, you take them out with Christmas decorations and I think that particular Santa Clause would have stuck in some ones mind in fact Pam Paugh saw that Santa Clause when she went in the house with the police to pick up some clothing and she went into JonBenet's room and she got a metal from JonBenet's room to give to John and she saw that Santa Clause teddy bear and it did click to her that you know it's a Santa Clause, JonBenet was killed on Christmas and she's never going to see Christmas again and never see Santa Clause again so the Santa Clause clicked in her mind as being on the bed. It is nowhere to be found now, where was it. I mean, it's in the photos and it's missing now but the point is that no one has said that they ever saw that doll before the murder and that goes for the housekeeper, company, people who where at the party.

Lance Matthews: So I was wondering on that. Was a was all the things that were packed up out of that house did that go at least out of JonBenet's room. Is that in police storage somewhere or did somebody just pack it up?

Jameson: No, it went to the Ramsey's.

Lance Matthews: Okay, so your and of course everybody the police are completely honest so we know they documented every little thing cause they are honest?

Jameson: I don't think anybody's honest.

Lance Matthews: There you go. Hey so somebody found a really nice guntz bear. I mean Guntz are very expensive bears so I know my daughter has a couple and somebody pocketed a bear. That's how I think.

Jameson: Well, I thought, I thought maybe a….. I thought maybe one of the movers took it as a souvenir but you can't accuse some one of that I mean or did somebody I mean how many cops, how many reporters, there were even a couple of break in's in that house between the time of the murder and the time that the house was packed up and gone. There were a couple break in's in that house so it could have been somebody who broke into the house and took it. There is no way of knowing where the bear is now. The fact is the bear appeared on the bed the day after the murder that was not know to have been in that house before.

Dave Lucas: It is just amazing as well that it is such a convoluted story and so much was messed up and goofed up by the police and the investigating authorities. It is just mind boggling how many mistakes it made. Anybody who has watched the documentaries that have been on television about the case you gotta wonder what the hell were they thinking when they did some of the things they did when they were carrying on their so called investigation.

Jameson: Well, they were very focused on the fact that they right away thought the Ramsey's did this. There are stories that when they had the street blocked off with police cars and everything that neighbors were going down the street and stop and say what's going on and they were told don't worry about it, it is a domestic issue. If that's true that's really frightening. Neighbors were not questioned. The wife of, the man next door, Scott Gibbons saw some strange lights in the kitchen. His wife was questioned and she said the police had talked to her husband and her son really gave them two minutes of time, were are not interested in talking to the neighbors, canvassing the neighborhood, finding out if anybody had seen anything, heard anything, what they thought of the Ramsey's, if they saw a stranger, they did not.

Lance Matthews: Back to the whole, you just said something about the police cornering off the house and this is my biggest problem with the case and my reasons for suspecting the Ramsey's. The note. Let's bring it back to the note if we may, is that okay Dave?

Dave Lucas: Go right ahead

Lance Matthews: Cool, okay. Here's the note that says don't contact anybody, don't contact the police, don't contact the F.B.I., don't even talk to a stray dog or your daughter dies and they say very clearly don't contact anybody or your daughter dies, eh, these people had a party at their house, a party, a virtual party. The police pulled up in cruisers with lights on you know with regular marked cars pulled right into the house and and started their investigation. I don't know if I was a parent and I read a note that said you know if I contact anybody my daughter dies. I will tell you if I had a note like that my daughter was missing I would follow every single word of that note.

Jameson: Who are you blaming for this, the Ramsey's or the police?

Lance Matthews: Boy I guess it would all depend on that 911 call.

Jameson: That's what I was about to say. Until you hear the 911 tape you don't know what was said. It could be that Patsy said, "You know my God, I want you to come but what do we do," I mean she made two calls, what did she say? Did she say, you know eh….

Lance Matthews: Wouldn't you run out when the first car came and said wait a minute they said no police, they said they are watching us, please get the car out of here.

Jameson: Well they did move but I don't know how long it took but they did end up moving their cars because the Ramsey's did freak.

Lance Matthews: And then of course….

Jameson: But they just went around the corner.

Lance Matthews: And they invited people over to the house.

Jameson: They made those phone calls with the police in the house from what I understand and it was basically it was to get up the money. I understood that Fleet White brought over several thousands of dollars to help set up the ransom money and in the documentary John Ramsey said you know our friends, we were very fortunate, our friends had on, they had the money for us you know in cash that morning and the people they called over brought the money. The Fernies, the Whites and the Reverend.

Lance Matthews: And the Reverend had money?

Jameson: Well I would imagine, the church had money laying around, yeah.

Lance Matthews: So the Reverend came over to bring money?

Jameson: I am not sure why he came over but between those people they ended up with $118,000.00.

Lance Matthews: And that was the only people that come over that morning?

Jameson: There were the people that were there before the detective was there. After the detective was there, I don't know.

Dave Lucas: Okay we are going to take a real quick break here as it says in the book, "Don't try and grow a brain John." Actually that's what it says in the note and this is from the book, "A Mother Gone Bad," by Andrew Hodges. In the very beginning of the book, Dr. Hodges reproduces for us the JonBenet Ramsey ransom note of December 25th, 1996. The telephone lines are open 1-800-WROW-590 if your out there on the Internet and you have really got something to say, well this is your chance to say it, you have been warned, been invited, come on 1-800-WROW-590. It is a free call and it's your chance to voice your opinion, your anger, whatever you want to do. For those local who would like to discuss the case 476-5959 or #590 from your cellular telephone. And one thing that I think is really important is that we need to find justice. Justice for little JonBenet Ramsey. Just a little six year old girl who didn't harm anyone. And look at this big convoluted mess. It has almost turned into a cottage industries of books and next thing there will be a movie, right? Okay, we are going to take a quick break and we will be back. Your listening to Dave Lucas sitting in for Joe Lirosi on AM 590 WROW.

Transcript Is Continued ~ See Below

Dave Lucas Radio Show (WROW Radio)

February 16, 1999 ~ 1:00am-3:00am EST

Lance Matthews Solution to the problems on the Boulder News Forum (BNF)


Dave Lucas: In this segment of the broadcast we are talking about justice for JonBenet Ramsey and also some of the things that are going on in the world wide web on the Internet particularly the Boulder News Forum. Now there is a thread, or actually an area on the Boulder News Forum where there is a JonBenet Ramsey murder case discussion and this forum originally it began in order to discuss the Ramsey case but it has kind of degenerated into something else. So lets bring back our guest, Lance Matthews and also Jameson is on the line.

Lance Matthews: It's funny you said there is a place on Boulder News where they discuss the JonBenet case. There is a place on Boulder News where people get vicious and sick on each other and take out their frustrations on daily life and their disgruntle little beefs about everything and blast one another with hatred and there is a couple posters, there is one poster by the name of Bayou who I think is one of the best on case posters there is who post constantly on case. Most of the others get into the flame wars which of course I have been involved to. I am not an innocent party by any means

Dave Lucas: Well Lance the thing I can not understand in going to one of these forums especially if you are a new to one of these forums it's sometime very difficult to wade through all the nonsense and garbage that you just don't understand that is there. I mean here you are looking for a meaningful discussion on the murder case and your finding really just a bunch of garbage.

Lance Matthews: Boy eh, that kind of the way it is and garbage is a good word for it. It is kind of amusing sometimes but I can't even imagine going to that particular forum. I mean there are two forums that are on case constantly and that's WebbSleuth's and Justice Watch but Boulder News has just become ridicules. I can't even imagine going there and expecting to talk about Ramsey, maybe one out of every eight threads is on topic, the rest is just funny stuff.

Dave Lucas: Now Lance I have tried to get in touch with Gary Love. He is the sysops operator on the Boulder News Forum but I guess he has people running interference for him they won't let him answer the phone. But if he is out there listening on the Internet, he is welcome to call in at 1-800-WROW-590 because I'd like to find out here is a forum that supposable has a sysops op, a system operator, somebody who is suppose to be watching over it. I don't think he is doing a very good job of watching over it.

Lance Matthews: Well you know something I spoke to Gary and the reason he wasn't ready for the show tonight or on the show tonight because this night freed up at the last minute over the weekend. He did want to come on the air.

Dave Lucas: He did?

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah. Yeah he will come on the air and talk about this evidentially but as the staff is there it's a free speech forum and rather corrected, an un-moderated forum which means you can put pretty much just what ever you want. The only two rules they will come down and bash a post out of cyberspace on would be printing some bodies complete address, and it has to be a complete address and also printing some bodies phone number. You can put anything, you can put any bodies real name, where they work, whatever you want which causes quite a bunch of problems but Dave I am wondering if we could just backtrack just a minute off the forum because there is plenty to talk about.

Dave Lucas: Okay.

Lance Matthews: I was wondering about that book still. Jameson are you still around?

Jameson: Yeah, I'm here.

Lance Matthews: I believe you have seen parts of the book?

Jameson: Yes I've had one full chapter of it for quite some time and I have I know about some other things that are coming out in the book and I am a little disappointed because Charlie Brennan took a year off from the Rocky Mountain News in order to help Schiller with it and Charlie is the one who had the connections in Boulder and he knew some of the things that are still wrong in the book for example the book is going to say that the Ramsey's flew with the body back to Atlanta for the burial and that is not how it happened at all that was incorrectly reported early on and it was one of the reasons why people were angry at John that he could be calm enough to pilot his own plane and fly the body back to Atlanta, how cold of him. And actually the family flew in a jet that was provided by Lockheed Martin and they did not fly back with the body. Yet in the book that is incorrect. In the book things like the blueprint of the house are incorrect. He has Mindy, Melinda's bedroom swapped with John Andrews bedroom. Obviously he has never been in the house because the bedroom he has John Andrew sleeping in has very feminine wall paper and has pink bows on the walls.

Lance Matthews: Well you never really know, right.

Jameson: (giggles)

Lance Matthews: Sorry can't help it

Jameson: But the Newsweek had the correct setup. In fact it is not even called John Andrew's room because John Andrew stayed at the fraternity house and it was called Nedra's room because Nedra stayed there while Patsy was ill.

Dave Lucas: Wait a minute, how could an author who is preparing a book for national publication on such an important case how could such a mistake be made and how could he not be made aware of this, how could it not be taken to task or not be made note of? I just don't understand.

Lance Matthews: I believe this addition is first what they call first printing and a second printing will be due very very shortly with a lot of things corrected if I am not mistaken, I did hear that

Jameson: Yes, his second printing is already going to be starting this week. I don't know how many corrections he is going to put in it.

Dave Lucas: I guess he is going to need a third.

Jameson: (giggles) Not unless he gets the next one right

Dave Lucas: And we do make mistakes because we are, I can't tell you how many times I've sent something out over the Internet and look back and say, opps I make a mistake, why didn't I catch that. I just happens sometimes.

Jameson: But for the two people who have been on the book for a year and a half and they are saying, they are quoting the housekeeper whose now coming out and saying that's not what I said, I actually said the opposite of that.

Dave Lucas: Could they have got their notes mixed up somehow or something?

Jameson: Well it is almost like did they write this book twelve years months ago and edit it and put the wrong one into the publisher. You know I just don't know why these mistakes are there because some of them are pretty basic.

Lance Matthews: How much of the book have you read?

Jameson: (giggles)

Lance Matthews: I guess that doesn't come out, eh?

Jameson: What?

Lance Matthews: How much of the book have you read?

Jameson: I can't answer that

Lance Matthews: Okay. No biggie but there is a lot of mistakes, eh?

Jameson: Yeah, there's a lot, I mean quite a few of them came out in the Newsweek excerpt and umm….

Lance Matthews: Is that with the Patsy interview?

Jameson: Yeah

Lance Matthews: Oh.

Jameson: Although that's not a mistake. I am sure that that is right but if you hammered on me for three days by the third day I wouldn't be very calm either. He said to her you know what would you say I had evidence that you did it and she flew in his face and said show it to me and he backed down and said well I can't do that. Well he didn't have the evidence to know he could prove she did it and she knew that. By the third day of handling I mean I think he is lucky he wasn't assaulted

Lance Matthews: You know it is funny when I first came and looked at this case and everything else ………….stuff. My first interest as I said before and I will say it again, J.T. Colfax asked me to pop on the forum once, he is a friend of mine and I poked around and I made a posting and everybody accused me of being someone else later like every two hat is and I will tell you something when I first came on I was completely convinced that these parents had killed their kid that without a doubt Patsy went Waaaack in the middle of the night as I like to say and it is really strange because reality is now, you know I can't buy an intruder did it actually a mysterious intruder did it, I don't buy that either but in talking to Pam, Patsy's sister, I've I'm really actually looking at another avenue and my my ninety percent Patsy did it is starting to waiver down and her theory seems to make a lot of sense that it is possible that this is all planned out, that someone planned to stick this family, these parents with the murder of their own child. I do see it as a possibility and if you look at everything from the note and everything else it could have been a complete staged crime just to frame these people

Transcript Is Continued ~ See Below

Dave Lucas Radio Show (WROW Radio)

February 16, 1999 ~ 1:00am-3:00am EST

Lance Matthews Solution to the problems on the Boulder News Forum (BNF)



Jameson: These people just to get Patsy and John in trouble. I honestly think this was a pedophile, a predatory pedophile, who decided he wanted JonBenet, saw her at school on the playground at a store. And I do think it was very planned calculated crime. I don't think that somebody just happened to be walking by the house that night thought it was a good house to go into. I do think it was calculated way ahead of time.

Dave Lucas: Hold that thought a moment Jameson. We are talking with Jameson and Lance Matthews about the JonBenet Ramsey case. The phone lines are open folks 1-800-WROW-590, #590 from your cell phone, 476-5959 for all of you people who said you wanted to get a word in on this case well this is your big chance because we are taking your calls and we will put you right up on air no matter where your calling from. Fifteen minutes now in front of the hour of two o'clock in the morning. Dave Lucas sitting in for Joe Lirosi on AM 590 WROW.

Dave Lucas: We are talking about the JonBenet Ramsey murder case bring us up to speed on what's happening on the case we are on the phone with Lance Matthews and also with Jameson and guys just before the break we were talking about the possibility that a pedophile was watching JonBenet and had planned this whole thing so Jameson why don't you pick up your thought from there.

Lance Matthews: No, Now wait wait wait, we weren't talking about that. Jameson was, I don't buy the theory at all

Dave Lucas: Alright well one of us was discussion it

Lance Matthews: (laughing) But da, just curious about something if I may interrupt for a moment the thought. Somebody had posted on the Internet and it is a good question. How could a stranger maneuver through that dark maze of a house with either a child struggling or dead weight?

Jameson: Nobody had to negotiate (that is the word she used) threw a dark house.

Dave Lucas: Now how did you happen to get a tour of the house?

Jameson: Very Interesting. I was going out to Boulder in October to speak to Michael Tracy and the producers of CBS about working on a documentary. While I was out there I received an e-mail from someone I will not name but it was not Michael Tracy and was not Mike Bynum asking me if I was interested in having a tour of the house. I believe it is because this person wanted me to, I don't know if it was to thank me for my support of the Ramsey's or because they knew I was going to see something in the house that I would bring public. I did both. I went in the house and when I came out I was quite upset over some of the things that I saw that had not been made public, one of them being the boiler room with an open duct going out the window that could have easily carried the scream to the neighbors which had not been publicized. One of them was a piece of furniture in that room and I have always maintained that JonBenet was killed and she was held in a certain position and I believe she was held on a piece of furniture not on the floor.

Lance Matthews: Here you go, you believe that she was brought down to the basement and molested, right?

Jameson: I believe she was brought to the basement and that she was brought to the boiler room, I believe she was held on the freezer, the chest freezer.

Lance Matthews: Here's a voice from a voice of reason from the chat room. If you have written a note and are kidnapping or even molesting, go out the door!

Jameson: Why?

Lance Matthews: You know I would think these people would leave too. That's what I would think. I would think if they were going there to kidnap a kid or molest a kid or whatever that they would grab the kid and get out of the house. I doesn't make any sense for me.

Jameson: The house is huge.

Lance Matthews: Well it doesn't make any sense to do it there when they could just walk out the door and get out and do whatever.

Jameson: No, they knew they were going to kill her and it was safer to kill her in the house than it would be to carry her outside, risk being seen because obviously he wouldn't have had his car right by the back side door. He would have risk being seen outside at midnight with this child who might wake up and be screaming?

Lance Matthews: So he is going to grab the kid out of the bedroom, bring em downstairs to molest her?

Jameson: Wait a minute, the child, whether people want to believe it or not there is a very good indication, there is a good chance the child was hit with a stun gun and immobilized in the bed, brought down stairs and had her mouth covered with tape. When she came to, this forty five pound child whose got tape on her mouth, I would think that a grown man who wants to molest her would could bearly reason that she wouldn't be making too much noise and forty five pounds is a small child he could control.

Dave Lucas: Let me interject something here as well. I've known one in grammar school and one in high school, kids in the area whose parents had big houses and a I will tell you there is a lot of stuff you can do in a big house, it's cavernish and you can do stuff in there that people in other parts of the house have no idea what's going on. They can't hear you, they can't always see you either.

Jameson: When I was in the house we did some sound experiments. There is a umm, duct downstairs in that room there is a window in that basement room that goes out the front of the house. There originally was three panes of glass there, there is two now and the third one has metal with a metal duct pipe that comes in and curves down and is wide open. You can put your hand out there, it has never been blocked up, it is wide open and it doesn't attach to anything inside.

Lance Matthews: Are you suggesting he was going to escape through there?

Jameson: No I'm not. I am telling you that for sound experiments when I went into the house the second time in December we did some sound experiments and I took a flashlight into that basement and I put it up in that metal duct and I banged it around back and forth and the people I was with went up to the third floor bedroom and they could not hear it. And then we traded places and they went downstairs and banged inside that pipe and I went to the third floor bedroom and I could hear what sounded like, like very distant, umm, like a creak in an old house, a very distant, you know like a furnace turning on. That was nothing that would have woke me up or startled me or made me go down there and look. So I fully believe that if this house was big enough and when I was in it there was very little furniture, the curtains, you know nothing like that. When the Ramsey's were there there was furniture, curtains, a lot more stuff there. It would have muffled the sound even more. So we are talking about a house that didn't carry sound inside.

Dave Lucas: Where did the stun gun theory come from?

Lance Matthews: Oh no !

Jameson: The stun gun theory came out, (clears throat), I am trying to think of the month. It came out after Smit came into the case and he saw the marks on her body and he came out and said that he thought it was a stun gun. I believe it was in April of 1997.

Lance Matthews: And the forensic guys, the experts, the coroner,, they said?

Jameson: They, well you know what, we haven't heard from them yet because there were four of them brought in from coroners in the area were brought in to a talk with Smit and look at the evidence and nobody has said either way what happen however we then had the police going to neighbors and talking to suspects about stun guns, a particular model saber gun and in January of 1998 a search warrant on a Michael …….. house and he has been written up in tabloids, he has already told this story, he's written e-mails about this, he has posted on this so this is not a secret. The police went to this house and they not only took his stun gun but they bought him a new one and replaced it so the stun gun is not a dead hit, it is not something that is not viable. This is something the police looked at to the point that they actually thought a suspect and replaced his stun gun so they could………

Lance Matthews: Do you know anything about this tape, this duct tape?

Jameson: The duct tape?

Lance Matthews: Yeah, I heard rumors that it was less than an inch wide

Jameson: I heard from a seven on a scale of ten that it was three quarters of an inch wide.

Lance Matthews: There you go

Jameson: That doesn't seem very wide to me.

Lance Matthews: That's something that bothers me too about this whole thing.

Jameson: But understand if she was stunned he had time to take that tape and make two or three strips side by side and make it wider. We don't know what that duct tape looked like when it was picked up off the floor.

Lance Matthews: Oh okay, I guess that was one of my assumptions is that it was one piece of duct tape over her mouth.

Jameson: We don't know, nobody said that. I was told that the duct tape that was used was three quarters of an inch wide and that did make a lot of sense to me until it was pointed out to me that it could have been side by side.

Lance Matthews: He could have put it…..

Jameson: So we don't know. There is a lot of information that's not out and you know when the autopsy was done they sent evidence to the lab to check and we don't know any of those results either.

Lance Matthews: Hmmm, this is as Dave always says a very convoluted case.

Dave Lucas: It certainly is and a were gonna have to take a little bit of a break now guys because it is almost time for the CBS news at the top of the hour at two o'clock.

Transcript Is Continued ~ See Below

Dave Lucas Radio Show (WROW Radio)

February 16, 1999 ~ 1:00am-3:00am EST

Lance Matthews Solution to the problems on the Boulder News Forum (BNF)


Dave Lucas: And one really fine forum was the Boulder News, the JonBenet Ramsey discussion forum. Unfortunately there are a lot of nitwits out there who get on these forums and ruin them for everybody else and it is really too bad they have made a mockery of the case and they just abuse these forums. What we are doing tonight, we are welcoming posters and lurkers from the Boulder News Forum to join us in this on air discussion of the forum and it's future implication, applications in justice for JonBenet. We are speaking on the phone with Jameson. Jameson moderates WebbSleuth's and is responsible for maintaining the Timeline. Lance Matthews is also with us. Lance right now is in the WROW chat room so you may want to go out to the web page at www.wrow.com, log on and get in the chat room, there are some other folks in there, aren't there Lance?

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah there are.

Lance Matthews: Funny they are making reference to my latest obscene posts on BNF. (laughs)

Dave Lucas: And if you hear any little tipping tappings while we are on the air, that's Lance tapping away at his computer. Tap for us Lance.

Lance Matthews: (tap, tap, tap)

Dave Lucas: There it is, he is tapping away at the computer and let's bring Jameson back up here where we can hear her. Hello?

Jameson: I'm here.

Dave Lucas: Okay, and a we heard the broadcast the CBS news at two o'clock and they did indeed mention the new book on the JonBenet case so where did we leave off guys?

Lance Matthews: Boy, I really don't know, it's funny but while we were on commercial they were arguing back and forth in chat about this intruder theory and I believe that is where we were.

Dave Lucas: Yes, the intruder, the idea that someone could have come in and used a stun gun on JonBenet and could have actually gone through the house undetected because I don't know Lance how much you know about big old houses but believe me I have been in a couple of them and you can get lost in them. There is a lot of things you can do without other people being aware of what your doing and I know that from personal experience so that theory I mean it's very believable to me.

Jameson: The parents were on the third floor, the third floor.

Dave Lucas: Ah

Jameson: And the child was taken from the second floor and in addition down to the basement

Dave Lucas: Well, now you have been in the house Jameson, give us some idea of exactly how big that place is?

Jameson: You know it looks bigger than it is when you are inside it's not, when they say it is a maze of a house it made me feel like when I got in there I wasn't going to be able to find my way but once you walk through the house you know exactly where you are I mean it's straight, you know the kitchen is in the center of the house and you know what is behind it and what is in front of it and what is to the side of it. It is not, it's not a place where your going to get lost after you been in there five or ten minutes. My theory is that the killer was in there for a couple hours. I think he was in there when the Ramsey's were visiting their friends the Whites, I think he went through the house, I think he knew where everything was, it was obvious whose bedroom was where.

Dave Lucas: Now do you think the killer was the type of person who did this on his or her own from the outside or could the killer been someone who had occasion to be in the house for some reason or another whether I don't know making a deliver or perhaps a friend of the Ramsey's or maybe one of their servants or what not?

Jameson: Ahh the Ramsey's, I have always said that I think the child was chosen for this by the killer and in that saying I have posted a couple theories, one being that perhaps it was somebody who worked in the house. They had done a lot of remodeling, they had a lot of caterers, they had housekeepers and their husbands and friends. They had 1,500 people I think she said came into the house for a tour a year or so before when when like her Junior League or whatever it was gave a great big Christmas tour of the nicest houses in Boulder.

Dave Lucas: 1,500 people?

Jameson: They opened their house up and they let people just tromp through their house. Their house was featured on a TV, a tour of the Ramsey home because it was like Better Homes and Garden type material.

Dave Lucas: So somebody, someone who was twisted or demented, someone with an a you know a lot of times twisted and demented people they can have very photographic minds and good memories could have actually gone through there and in his or her brain recorded everything and had things pretty much down pat so they had a real head start on you know what to find what they were looking for and how to go about getting there.

Jameson: Absolutely. No doubt, when I went in that house I really expected it was going to be a confusing house and it was not. I was absolutely not a confusing house.

Dave Lucas: So it would be easy for someone to go in there one time and have a pretty good idea where things were and whose room was where, etc. etc.

Jameson: Oh yeah, I went in there in October and by the time I went back in December I was giving the tour to the people I went with in December. And talking about you know look at this sliding door, look this could have happened. No, it is not a very confusing house to be in.

Dave Lucas: Lance, what is going on in the chat room. It sounds like your tapping away at the keyboard.

Lance Matthews: Oh, they're talking about da the post I recently put on the JonBenet forum and we'll get to that later.

Dave Lucas: Okay

Lance Matthews: Most definitely

Jameson: There is a question on the duct opening that Jameson talked about would have been attached to something on December 25th. No it was not. It is in the boiler room. The only thing in that boiler room is a small furnace, hot water heater and then the chest freezer, there is no room for anything else. That's how it was on the 25th and the duct goes out. When I got back from Boulder I mean when I got out of the house I was so upset and when I finally decided to make that information public I suggested to a couple of reporters that they go to the house, go to that window in the front of the house and drop a pebble in that duct and listen. And they did and they could hear that it went straight through to the floor. They all thought it was crazy not to block that up because of the heat. But plain and simple it was never blocked up, it was wide open and not connected to anything.

Dave Lucas: And a as far as, as far as the you mentioned there were three floors. Now is that full three floors or was that third floor like an attic area?

Jameson: In the original house I am sure it was the attic but it had been opened upwards and outwards and it was a huge master bedroom suite. The front is a huge bedroom which had a built in I don't know how you say it, like VCR type things like in the wall.

Dave Lucas: Like an entertainment center?

Jameson: Yeah, built in and a screen on the far wall then in the back of the house over JonBenet's bedroom, over Nedra's bedroom and over that hallway where the washer and dryer is there were two bathrooms and two dressing areas with huge closets you know including the cedar closet and a bathroom for Patsy and over JonBenet's bedroom there was a huge dressing room with a private bathroom that was John's.

Dave Lucas: Now um as far as I don't know to me like whenever, whenever I would see a house like that quote unquote a rich person's house for me it would seem like a unpenatratable fortress. It would have burglar alarms and gismos and gadgets, bars on the windows and you know a big strong brick house that sort of thing.

Lance Matthews: Why Dave what a good point.

Jameson: But it wasn't. Absolutely not in fact.

Lance Matthews: Patsy had a, or they had a security system installed and from what I heard Patsy was really neurotic about security with that house and was really serious about the installation, I believe she even supervised it and said things to the people who installed it and am I wrong there?

Jameson: Well I don't know what she said to the people who installed it but I do know they didn't use the system. I was not commonly set up and used. They had windows that were actually unlocked and opened and had electrical wires going out in order to hook up the Christmas lights, the great display of Christmas decorations they had outside and my windows in my house are Pella windows if there unlocked you have to crank them open. The house, the windows in the Ramsey house, once they are unlocked they are push and pull open, I mean they open like doors and when I was at the house in December one of those windows was unlocked and you just pushed it open from outside and went over the ledge into the dining room and I'm a older middle aged woman and absolutely no problem, we are not talking about a window that you had to climb up and into. We're talking about low big windows that were very easy to get into and the security there was rotten. Whoever put in the security system, whoever advised them on the security of the house sucked.

Lance Matthews: Well, you even said that they didn't or they claim that they didn't even have the security system on that night.

Jameson: It was not on that night. It was No, you got to understand Boulder I think I did have the, there was an article put out in the paper later that like two percent of the alarms that went off were valid, the rest of them were false alarms. They have got wildlife in Boulder and winds in Boulder and they were going to charge people for the false alarms but the Ramsey's with the kids and stuff and seven, I mean there are seven outside doors on the bottom level. They weren't just very security conscience that's all. I mean you don't leave that kind of window unlocked with an electrical cord going out and turn around and say you people had great security system and was security conscience.

Dave Lucas: Seven doors?

Jameson: Yes there are seven doors. There's a door that goes into the sitting room, a door that goes into the dining room, a door that goes into the back hallway, door to the garage, the butlers pantry, the front door, and I mean and on the second floor there are doors that go in from the balcony to other areas. One into JonBenet's bedroom and one into the family room.

Dave Lucas: Wow, so anybody could have gotten in there. All you got to do is leave one door unlocked and the security system is not turned on of course I guess in the footage I saw on Television there was snow around but not that much, I mean there are places where you could have walked where you would have not have left any footprints in the snow. And I imagine if there are seven doors there probably would have been opportunities there to actually find a door that perhaps was unlocked or could easily be opened. Some of these modern doors all you need is a knife or a credit card slipped in the right way you .

Jameson: Could have gone in the window.

Lance Matthews: Yeah but, coulda, woulda, shoulda, yeah and OJ could be innocent. Reality is, I don't know somebody who wanted a question asked and a this is right to Jameson, did the intruder plan to set up the Ramsey's for the murder?

Jameson: Oh I don't think so, I don't think he cared one way or the other. He just wanted to kill her.

Lance Matthews: So your saying this person wrote this dumb note as a ruse?

Jameson: I think he wrote it as, I think that the person was in the house, that he intended to take the child and kill her. I don't think he cared who got blamed for it as long as he didn't. I think that when he was in the house he had to do something, he had to wait in the basement till the Ramsey's got home, quieted down, whatever, he took the pad and the paper down there and what's he gonna do, I mean, I think that he fantasized you know if I had some place to take her what kind of note might I leave for these people to show control, I'm macho and in control and I think that the ransom note was just a ruse. If he was trying to set up the Ramsey's I think he would have written her name. I don't think he knew how to spell or write her name. It's an odd name, if you never seen it, how do you write JonBenet? Although he may have heard it I don't think he knew what the name was. I think if he wanted to set up the Ramsey's he might have, he might have used her name, he might have asked for a lot more money, you know to try to make it look like the parents thought their kids were worth a lot of money. The note was just a fantasy, I mean it's a fantasy note and the person never expected to ……..

Lance Matthews: Hmmmm

Jameson: But what to get back to the to the to the windows and stuff, I went back to the house in December and it was close to the anniversary of the murder and I took pictures of that house and there was snow in the yard and I posted on the Timeline it shows something I really didn't expect, there are a lot of trees around that house but the way the sun comes up and shines in that yard the South portion of that yard cleared from snow even before the front of the house did where there are no trees. It's very very strange. But the South side clears and I shown that and I documented that in the photos and even though there was snow in the front of the house when I was there I could have easily gotten into the window without stepping into snow and the back door that was suppose to have been left unlocked, which by the way is glass. If somebody wanted to break in you know you could have broken the glass put your hand in and unlocked it.

Lance Matthews: aaaha

Jameson: I just I think if the parents wanted to make it look like somebody broke into the house they would have staged a break in and they didn't.

Dave Lucas: In the note or actually the signature at the end of the note, S.B.T.C. Did anybody ever venture any a, any a information what that might stand for?

Lance Matthews: (laughing) Yeah Dave there are a hundred explanations. Where did John go for his military training again, Jameson?

Jameson: Subic Bay but that…..

Lance Matthews: What was the name of it?

Jameson: Subic Bay

Lance Matthews: Subic Bay Training Center, S.B.T.C., then there is Saved By The Cross, people are famous for their Patsy's religious things, saved by the cross, S.B.T.C. There's even a, hey I lived in Berkley for a while there's South.Bay …… Company, I mean there's a hundred things.

Jameson: One of the suspects in this case had a sweatshirt that had S.B.T.C. on it. I am not going to go into any detail on this but there is a suspect in this case who had a sweatshirt with those letters on it and his girlfriend brought that to the attention to the authorities. There is also Sorry Bout This Christmas. Nobody knows what S.B.T.C. stands for but the killer.

Lance Matthews: Well, Jameson, if the killer planned on killing her and had her targeted and how come he didn't know her name to put on the ransom note?

Jameson: Oh I think he probably seen her or heard of her or lets just say one of my off theories and I mean I am not accusing anyone but lets just say John Andrew is at the college with a friend named Joe and Joe and him are budding all around all the time. And Joe's got a friend name Wilton and one day Wilton says you know, what are you doing and they say I don't know were going to go to the movies but first we got to stop by John Andrew's house and pick up a jacket so you got Wilton, once in five years he's gone to this house, sees this little girl, hears the name JonBenet. Hmmm, let's just say the guys a sicko, you know he heard the kids name, he may have thought it over in his mind but how would he know how to write it or spell it. I think anybody who left a note, two and a half pages in his own hand writing had to feel fairly secure that he would not be a suspect and not be asked for a handwriting sample so I think you have to look just outside the circle where someone would be suspect and someone like this friend of a friend who was at the house once would fit into that. Might have heard the child's name, thought about it and remembered it but how do you write it.

Lance Matthews: I don't think that would be an issue in this …… business, (laughs) you know, I don't think that would be an issue. I don't know, like I said, in my mind I can only buy two, two scenarios and first and foremost is that the parents are covering up for a murder done in that house by one of the three people there. My theory would be that Patsy did it but the only other scenario that I can even consider would be a, you know that somebody had set those people up, that went in and got the pad of paper at the time, wrote the note, knew how Patsy's handwriting is because there are many many similarities there that anyone can see. Hey just type www.justicewatch.com and put you on a page with handwriting sample. You can see the, you can see the handwriting right there. Okay.

Dave Lucas: Someone, someone could have actually had something or seen something that Patsy had written and just tried to mimic it.

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah.

Jameson: Oh sure, they had Patsy's pad.

Lance Matthews: That is one of, that is the only other theory that I can think of is like somebody had planned this thing out and attempted to write like Patsy.

Jameson: Well they were writing on that pad.

Lance Matthews: Cause there is so many similarities to the handwriting like the Y's and the T's and the H's and you could go all day. I don't know.

Jameson: But you have to understand, they took Patsy's pad to the basement. Patsy had written on the top sheets of paper. They took three sheets from the middle of that pad and they wrote on it so if they were gonna copy anybodies writing it was going to be the writing on that pad which was Patsy's. But I don't happen to think that anybody copied…..

Dave Lucas: What was written on the pad, does anybody know what was on there before?

Jameson: No, we have just been told that it was Patsy's pad and it's what she did her planning on, you know who to call, what chores had to be done, ah, the family schedule.

Lance Matthews: You know, back to the, back to the security system for a moment. In the news just before this murder there was the news in Boulder saying that there was a burglar, in fact I lived there at the time, I lived a short town over in Longmont ah but I visited Boulder everyday and there was news, I mean it was the buzz in the papers was this burglar up, up in that area too.

Jameson: The midnight burglar.

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah, the midnight burglar. I find it hard to believe that a family that was that rich with that many things in the house and of course the most precious possessions that they had were their children.

Jameson: But that police report did not come out in the newspaper, the police brief or whatever till after the murder. I came out in January.

Lance Matthews: I thought just before the murder they were putting out reports in the Daily Camera about the burglar.

Jameson: I don't know, I didn't see it when I went looking when I first came in I didn't see anything then I found the police brief and it's funny because the police brief suddenly disappeared and you couldn't get it anymore.

Lance Matthews: Well the best to my knowledge is I remember that Christmas just before Christmas eve somebody talking about this burglar. I don't know the whole thing looks completely funky. Somebody just wrote in private chat and said they were looking it up now so hopefully, hopefully we will find out in a moment.

Dave Lucas: Okay and while we are waiting to find that out we are going to take a short break. Your listening to Dave Lucas on AM 590. It's twenty nine minutes after two o'clock on a Tuesday morning.

Transcript Is Continued ~ See Below

Dave Lucas Radio Show (WROW Radio)

February 16, 1999 ~ 1:00am-3:00am EST

Lance Matthews Solution to the problems on the Boulder News Forum (BNF)


Dave Lucas: Our discussion of course is the continuing saga of the murder mystery of JonBenet Ramsey, welcome back to the show guys.

Lance Matthews: Hey thanks Dave, you know, eh, we were talking about the Internet earlier and I am sure we are going to go there soon but I would like to read something that someone sent me earlier.

Dave Lucas: Okay

Lance Matthews: Okay, ah, here it is, "I am a regular member poster at the BNF on the JBR Discussion board on the Internet. My hat name is AuntieBJ. I have been posting on a regular basis for at least six months now. Some on the actual case and some on discussion with other posters. I would be called a "newbie" as some would say. to the BNF but I am not a newbie to the JBR case, certainly not a newbie to the Internet. When case news is at a low, it is difficult to continue posting messages on the case without being redundant. At these time I see nothing wrong with posting casual messages to other posters and I don't think it is right for posters of other forums to come to the BNF and insist that we discuss the case. We are just voicing our point of view. I do not believe in posting personal information about other posters on the forums but that particular habit for some has got out of control. Many Internet posters who have shared current and past histories on other forums have brought their anger to the BNF and within their own hearts and minds they feel they have just cause to expose certain traits and past histories of other individuals they believe to be undesirable. This type of behavior has caused others to retaliate. It is a no win situation. And I will say that many on the BNF have contributed to this habit as much as any other poster and at times have went extremely overboard particularly in their choice of language used. It has turned into a quest as to who can out-post the other on humiliating and/or personal information and in my opinion it really has to stop not just for the reverence of the small child who the discussion board was created for but for the humility and respect of other human beings who post on the board. It is my opinion that the latest hoax regarding a falsely reported rape on the Internet is a perfect example of how others have further used the incident as an opportunity to humiliate and make fun of posters on the BNF who were not involved in the hoax. I would like the JBR board to return to some sanity and for those who have bridges to burn to take it to another direction other than the BNF." And that is the end and that was a note from AuntieBJ.

Lance Matthews: You know that's, that, AuntieBJ's right on with a lot of her postings. It has got quite out of on control. There's people out there, there is one in chat right now, her name is Kira and it's people like this who they have chosen sides so blindly completely ignorantly blindly that something happens and somebody responds and it gets a little out of control and they will completely ignore what who might have started it or who might have even created the problems in the first place and will go after somebody else with a vengeance. It is just pure ignorance, it's ridiculous.

Lance Matthews: Lately, I will tell you one line hit me and I paused right after, overboard particularly in the choice of language used. Now, eh, I like using a lot of colorful language sometimes and I have a little character, Madkowz. And Madkowz comes out and it's usually Lisa and I sitting in front of the typewriter and most of the time when Madkowz, we take him out of the barn and we take him through a walk through the forum because it has just gotten ridiculous. Madkowz is pretty graphic to say the least and we did a Valentine Day special inspired by a posting by somebody named "Copier" and a poster by the name of "Gsquared" who we will get into in just a moment. But this Madkowz's came out and gave everybody a special Valentine Day story about a trip to Tijuana and it was really fun but anyway enough of that.

Lance Matthews: Eh, just to say that people have gotten a little out of hand you know, after tonight, I will, boy I will tell you, after tonight I will not participate in the craziness on the forum, you know Copier can say whatever about whose private parts and wherever they been and whose doing what to them and all those things over and over on the forum. I am just not going to participate. You know I have had a lot of e-mail in the last day, I had a lot of people call me and it is really not worth it and people have gone a little crazy.

Lance Matthews: There is a poster named Gsquared, there is a poster named Wilton, for those of you who don't know it is not big secret I am probation, big deal, I had a substance abuse problem, in my past I did my time for it and now I am on probation and these people are so sick that they have gone out and reached on the Internet, the Internet is wonderful because you can put what you want up but you know you reach out and you go beyond the computer and you reach into people's private lives like doing things like calling their places of business, calling child protection agencies on people. Things like that are really sick. Somebody named Wilton Jr, a hat named Wilton Jr, has posted you know, contact information for Lance's PO and said, Oh let's send him back to prison. And then this poster named Gsquared who claims to be an attorney has basically called this woman, this eight and a half month pregnant woman in the probation officer and harassed her at this point. And given false information to an officer of the courts. Over this Internet thing, I mean it has gone crazy. You want to do what you want to do on the Internet, fine.

Dave Lucas: Well the Internet can be a pretty savage place to be as we've seen and still what I keep going back to and what I can't understand is if something like the Boulder News Forum exist, and who actually sponsors that, Lance?

Lance Matthews: Who sponsors it?

Dave Lucas: Whose creation is that, who is responsible for that?

Lance Matthews: The Boulder News Forum itself? Jameson, can you answer that?

Jameson: It is owned by the Boulder Daily Camera, a newspaper in downtown Boulder.

Dave Lucas: The Boulder Daily Camera is a fairly prestigious newspaper, is it not?

Jameson: It's affected yes.

Dave Lucas: Well then how can they allow this thing to go on and then they have a sysop, this Gary Love, how can they allow this to go the way it's gone. I mean, right into the gutter.

Jameson: It didn't always, when it first started out they didn't have it where anybody had to register and everybody went in and everybody was new and everybody was polite and everybody was a little frightened by the Internet then people found out that anonymity gives you a freedom to….

Lance Matthews: Abuse people.

Jameson: Abuse other people.

Lance Matthews: (Laughs)

Jameson: To borrow their hat and it was months and nobody would even think of pretending to be somebody else and suddenly people were borrowing other people's hats and they were posting mean things.

Dave Lucas: Who started that?

Jameson: It wasn't me (chuckling) I was one of the first ones who was under attack in the beginning because I never believed the Ramsey's were guilty so I was one of the ones that, but anyway at the beginning Boulder News came in and they would actually ban them, they set it up so you had to register to go in, couldn't use anyone else's hat, you needed a password and at that point they had a sysop that would go in and clean up and if anyone was vulgar, posted pornography, posted or attacked another person's hat, they were banned. They were banned for three days, a week, two weeks, whatever. And then they just decided for legal reasons I believe, that is what I was told for legal reasons if they start playing babysitter then that makes them legally accountable for something. If they don't play babysitter at all then you know it's a free for all then legally they feel that there I don't know, somehow protected so they just decided they would have a hands off policy.

Dave Lucas: From my own experience when I logged on and participated in some of that it seemed like from the way it is set up it would be carefully moderated, this notice came on when I tried to post something, it said your post will be inspected and all this other stuff but the post I guess it was not because it showed right away, there was no delay at all.

Jameson: Well the computer picks up if you write certain bad words

Dave Lucas: I see so they have got a little electronic eye set up looking for certain things

Jameson: You can't write "XXXX," you have to put PF, XXXXX.

Dave Lucas: I see

Lance Matthews: Actually "XXX" goes through nicely.

Jameson: (chuckles)

Lance Matthews: But anyway

Dave Lucas: So in other words you can still circumvent what the computer is looking for.

Jameson: Yeah, they won't let you put a group of numbers together so you can't put in somebody's phone number but if you want to type out those words, one, two, three, four.

Lance Matthews: Or you can always replace a bunch of zero's with a bunch of "O's." There's ways around everything of course. But it's kind of funny though the whole thing it's gone, it's gone way out of hand, it has, it's gone out of hand again. You know when people start reaching out into other people's personal lives. Hey you know what they put my name up there and encouraged people to go to a place called Infoseek to look up my parents address and their phone number and encourage people to harass my parents and the thing is I have a three and a half year old daughter who lives with my mom so people are calling my mom's house at two thirty in the morning the day after these postings go up. Now things like that are kind of disturbing I mean these people, some of these people have no life other than sitting and typing vicious things against other people.

Dave Lucas: You got to remember too that this is not I mean this something that is happening to you because of something you are participating in or have been participating in on the Internet. There are other people out there who are very innocent, they get on something like America Online or they get into a chat room through some other ISP or something and they suddenly find them selves besieged or even have their computer ransacked by some of these moronic programs that can go in and get information.

Lance Matthews: Well just think about it taken off the Internet for a minute and take somebody who is a little bit sociopathic and is out for vengeance and is out to hurt people so they reach out with their phone and call people and a lets see, oh yes, vicious vicious calls to people, eh, as I read off the Internet now, make vicious calls to intently hurt or disrupt somebody's life. Now that is a little serious in my opinion. I mean these people are definitely genuine sick individuals

Jameson: They posted my brother's obituary. One of them died in 1966 and another one died in 1990. They posted their obituary and suggested that my siblings be looked up and called and asked about me. My brother that died in 1990 had four sons, it named the sons and what town they lived in 1990. I mean what is the point of posting my brother's obituary? Does that discredit me in anyway.

Lance Matthews: To know a little bit about this and I hope you don't mind me bringing this up but and when was the last time you ever spoke with any of these people? Are you in touch with this family now?

Jameson: I left, I walked away from my family twenty two years ago Christmas, have never looked back, have not been in touch with the family, had never seen that brother's obituary, heard through the grapevine that he was dead but no I'm not, I'm not part of that family.

Lance Matthews: And you know like talking about disturbing people who had people recently died. I had a girlfriend of mine who meant lot to me. Boy I, we went through a lot together, we tried to get on programs, we did a lot of things together, we were both addicts and I got clean while incarcerated and she got clean and we saw each other when I got out and we spend four days together and four nights and she was clean for six months at the time. And I came back to New York and I was going to fly her in in a few weeks and I wrote her a letter and I called her and her phone was down and as it turns out she went out and relapsed and OD'd and died. And this really shocked me. And now people know I am sensitive to this what they are doing is they are posting this person and saying that because I was involved with heroin ah that I killed her, that I was responsible for her death, that I sold her heroin that killed her and all this stuff on the forum. This is how sick these people are. This woman just died a few months ago and they are bringing her up on the Internet literally digging her body up and throwing her out on the Internet just to be vicious. I mean, this is the mentality of the people.

Jameson: Not only are they being vicious to you but they are also bringing up her father, where her father works, maybe people should call there and tell the father things about the forum and how his daughter's name is being brought up. These people are reaching out to cause anyone pain. And when you do look back, I have been here two years and a lot of people who are doing this have talked about their person lives in chat and stuff and I am telling you these people are sad lonely people and misery loves company and they are lashing out because they are miserable.

Dave Lucas: And one thing they have to remember someone told me this once and I will never forget it and they said that with anything that you do like any e-mail you send, anything that goes out on the Internet, it's always there somewhere for somebody to find, it's archived or it gets captured but it's out there somewhere.

Transcript Is Continued ~ See Below

Dave Lucas Radio Show (WROW Radio)

February 16, 1999 ~ 1:00am-3:00am EST

Lance Matthews Solution to the problems on the Boulder News Forum (BNF)


Dave Lucas: There somewhere and there are people who have ways of extracting that information.

Jameson: Well somebody needs to tell that to people when they are coming on because I....

Dave Lucas: People don't know that though.

Jameson: I had never been on the Internet before I went into the Ramsey forum. Matthews had never been on the computer before he went in the forum.

Lance Matthews: I haven't touched a computer or been in the Internet until literally August 27th and I hopped on the Boulder News Forum in first week, second week of September and I came out and I told my story and I didn't think there was anything real big about printing under my real name or telling people anything but of course anything you tell them.

Dave Lucas: Anything you say will be used against you.

Lance Matthews: In the Boulder News Forum, yes.

Jameson: And they will twist it and they will add to it. I mean, if you say um you know that that you had you know two dollars stolen they are going it two hundred, you know.

Dave Lucas: Hang on a second guys cause we got to take a quick break here, your listening to AM590 WROW, Dave Lucas with you sitting in for Joe Lirosi for a couple a days. We're on the line with Jameson who moderates WebbSleuth's on the world wide web. Lance Matthews is also with us. Lance is a moderating the WROW chat room right now you could say. It is ten minutes in front of three o'clock and we will be back.......


Dave Lucas: Right now twenty degrees in the Albany County International Airport and we are on the line with Jameson who moderates WebbSleuth's on the world wide web or should we say the world wide wake and Lance Matthews is also with us, Lance is a tippity typing in the WROW chat room. Welcome back to the program folks and you can pick it up Lance.

Lance Matthews: Hey I guess a just about a, I don't know this is just ridiculous these, a lot of these people, ah, especially this Gsquared thing. This person claims that she's a lawyer and a.....

Dave Lucas: Well, you know on the Internet you can claim to be anybody or anything, who would know?

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah, and that's a fact. A lot of these people are definitely not what they, what they say they are.

Jameson: You could have been a lawyer and you ended up a junkie?

Lance Matthews: Heya yeah, I should have come out and said I was a lawyer, I mean other people are doing it, right? Ah, but yeah, I could have been anything but I could have been a contender, you know, I don't know, I, it's kind of irrelevant, um, it's funny a, somebody types something about you complain about talking about your deceased girlfriend but J.T.'s pictures of others, dead ones are art with question mark and you know it's funny a....Kira just answered (can't make out) to chicken to come on the air and speak for yourself and you have to type behind your little computer screen like sociopathic people out there that participate in this type of stuff. A, well you know I consider them art, yes I do, I consider them art. I wouldn't have a problem with, matter of fact somebody asked me this the other night, in fact Jameson you had asked me this the other night if it came down to it how would I feel if somebody put a picture on my girlfriend and took a picture of it, right?

Jameson: Yes

Lance Matthews: Yeah, well you know what, and I think my answer was as long as it was in good taste that they didn't touch or move or pose her body, I think she'd laugh if she is looking down from heaven because you know they can take a picture of my body too, that's not a problem, it's doing something viciously, mentioning a dead person viciously, you know a, to harm somebody, that is where it gets to be sick. You know J.T. did his little private thing, he didn't publish any of his photos, you know it is a completely different story, we're dealing with apple and oranges here, we're dealing with people's ridiculous spins, people who sit in front of their computer and type hateful vicious things over and over and that sort of thing. You know we're getting on to something that I want to, somebody had said that this whole thing started with me, a because I was down with the rat pack and I used to, hey I used to, I was one of the people who followed Jameson around on the forums and use to, use to post hateful things about her when I first came on because when I came on I noticed that it was kind of a us, them thing, yahoo, the pro-rams against the anti-rams, the anti-rams against the pro-rams and people just going back and forth and you pick a team and you join the team and you join up with the rat pack. But a, I don't know I don't, I don't think.......

Jameson: But, but you went after me.

Lance Matthews: I, I don't think like a sheep. Oh yeah, In the beginning I went after you, like everybody else, I played the part but I went and I went and reached out a little bit and started writing you and the rest is history now but a, you know when this whole thing started that's the way it was and somebody had mentioned that the whole, the whole big flame fest with me being involved and people crossing the line and everybody starting to hate me on the forums was because I called Jameson an expert on the case a on one of our radio shows a that I did with you Dave and I will say it again.....Jameson, you, in my opinion are an expert in the case. Now you, see I consider Ma Brady an expert in the case. The definition if you would like to get right down to it, Jameson, you are an expert at compiling a timeline for this case. Do I agree with your personal opinions on the timeline? No way! Do I agree with your personal commentaries, oh come on please, don't even go there, I, I don't, I don't even have your point of view as far as this case goes at all. I completely disagree with it but I do think your an expert at compiling a timeline. I think that Ma Brady is an expert, Mrs. Brady's URL's. I think she is an expert at compiling an easy place for people to click on all the current news available on Ramsey and related items.

Dave Lucas: And Lance, CBS is an expert at the news and it is almost CBS news time so we are going to ask you folks to hang in there and join us on the other side of the CBS at three o'clock if you will. And for all of you who are leaving us now, thanks for being with us. I know we are going to pick up some new listeners as the hour of three o'clock approaches which it rapidly is doing as we speak. Clouds overnight, the low seventeen.....


Dave Lucas: And a one of these subcultures is the topic of tonight's discussion. We're talking about the Boulder News JonBenet discussion forum. Now I wasn't there in the beginning. I ah, just started reading there when I just by chance met a fellow by the name of Lance Matthews and he recommended I check it out. Since that day I visited the forum on numerous occasions, I watched the topics of threads ranging from serious discussions on aspects, theories on the murder to vicious attacks on other people posting on the forum. I have even seen people encouraging others to reach past their computers and actually try to harm others at their places of employment and their homes. Now folks it is sickening to me to see a forum that is suppose to be a discussion about a murdered child turn into such an abuse of freedom of speech and I have even seen this forum closed during or rather due to this abuse and well during the abuse, yes. And it was recently opened up again. We tried to get Gary Love, Sysop from the Boulder News Forum to come on the program with us but so far he's refused. The funny thing is on this forum the same folks who cried and complained about the closing are some of the people who have made a mockery of the case and are abusing the forum again so we are welcoming anyone out there who is a poster or lurker on the Boulder New Forum and they are in, some of them are in the WROW chat room right now. Some of them are in other chat rooms but they are listening to this broadcast so if you folks would like to call in if you feel you have anything valuable to say or contribute or if you would just like to defend your actions on the Internet and I know your not going to call in because I know a lot of you are cowards but your welcome to call in at 1-800-WROW590. For anyone local who would like to join in the discussion about the case with our two guests, 476-5959 is the local line or pound 590 from your cellular telephone and we are on the line with two guests, a first of all we have Jameson on. Jameson is the moderator of WebbSleuth's which has gained a great deal of popularity on the world wide web and Jameson what's the URL to get on WebbSleuth's?

Jameson: Well, a, the easiest way to get to WebbSleuth's, to me is to go through the Timeline, it's on the front page of it, it has the a forum area. The URL for that is quite complicated. Ah....

Dave Lucas: I hate complicated URL's (chuckling)

Jameson: Ah, the URL for the Timeline is http://members.tripod.com/~jamesonTimeLine. And the only letters in Jameson TimeLine that are capitalized are the T and the L in Timeline. That will bring you to the front page of the timeline and from there you go down the page you will see the JonBenet forum. If you click on the button it will bring you to the forum and the URL for that (chuckles) is really long. Do you want it?

Dave Lucas: Ah, maybe we better not cause you know I find a lot of these long URL's people really don't have a chance to write them down and sometimes when they do they make a mistake, you know. It's probably a lot easier to just go to the Timeline and then kind of take off from there, you know follow the links.

Jameson: It's Members Tripod Com and then Jameson timeline. If anybody's looking for it, if they do a web search or a JonBenet Ramsey or Jameson they will come up with the timeline.

Dave Lucas: Okay, I am hoping that somebody will a, will someday will simplify the Internet. Also we have Lance Matthews with us on the line. Lance are you still there?

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah, I'm still here.

Dave Lucas: Okay and Lance ah it must be our lucky night because guess what?

Lance Matthews: What?

Dave Lucas: We have a one of the cowards from

Lance Matthews: Oh my God

Dave Lucas: The Internet a, just called in

Lance Matthews: No way?

Dave Lucas: So, yeah, yeah so we're going to pop on here and see who we've got. Hello coward, identify yourself?

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Ah, hello yes, this is Lori

Dave Lucas: And where you calling from?

Lance Matthews: Oh my gosh!

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): I'm calling from Memphis, Tennessee

Dave Lucas: Okay

Lance Matthews: Hi Lori

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Hello Lance

Lance Matthews: How's it going?

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): I am doing just fine, I see your playing the victim here tonight

Dave Lucas: Lance, are you playing the victim here tonight?

Lance Matthews: Oh, it's my best role

Dave Lucas: His best role. And a, Lori what, what things have you been doing on this forum that you should not have been doing?

Lance Matthews: (laughs)

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Well, I posted the wheel of misfortune thread after I received an unsolicited phone call at three am from someone who posted that they were going to be passing my personal information to a group of convicts and etc. so yes I did post that thread and I am not sorry about it at all.

Dave Lucas: What a world wide web it is.

Lance Matthews: You know it's a funny thing is a.....

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Excuse me I can't hear you.

Lance Matthews: The funny thing is that you know yeah, I had, I had posted, that I went to Internet sites and sex sites and posted all your personal information so people would contact you. The funny thing is Lori is I don't even know your last name nor do I know the town you live on. Matter a fact I got into an argument with someone the other day because I was convinced your name really wasn't Lori so that was a big joke and then you blamed me for getting a phone call. Well it is funny because what I have noticed in the forums is a lot of people there are supposably friends with other people hope on another hat or do things a, against them just to stir crap up with people. Now what I'd suggest is that maybe that was somebody that you knew that had your number that made the phone call just possibly to aggravate you cause the fact is I don't a, I don't even know your last name, I don't know where you live so I don't have any personal information on you so.......

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Well, Lance I have (......) through someone who suggest otherwise. But regardless of the fact of whether you made the phone call or not, that's really not the point here, the point is you had done things to aggravate the forum and so therefore the things that are posted about you is just as much your fault as it is anyone else's.

Dave Lucas: This sounds like net rage going on here.

Lance Matthews: Now what, what...

Dave Lucas: We've heard of rode rage, now we have net rage.

Lance Matthews: Lori, let's get into specifics, cause I'm really hip on specifics. What specifically did I do that made you angry for you to start up on the forum, a, let's say harassing me with words?

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): The thing that made me angry to begin with was that I called your radio station show after you suggested that I do so and after LFlowers suggested that I do so in the chat room because I wanted to confront Jameson on some of the things that he, well I call him a he because I really don't know if it's a he or she. It appears to be a she on the radio but the........

Lance Matthews: I think that John, I think that John Ramsey's voice altering machine is great and Jameson hooks up to that machine. John, your doing a good job. Go ahead, Lori, I'm sorry. Go..

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Anyway... What was the question again, I'm sorry.

Lance Matthews: What specifically did you do, did I do, what specifically did I do that brought you to harass me on the forum and you were saying that Lflowers.....

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Okay, on the radio show I wasn't allowed to speak

Lance Matthews: Okay

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): You had invited me to call and Lflowers had invited me to call.

Lance Matthews: And when you called

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Why does, why does Jameson get all this airtime when he's a friggin liar?

Lance Matthews: What um, what specifically where you told when you called that we wouldn't let you speak. What were you told?

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): LFlowers told me that I could not, that the only discussion going on was about J.T.Colfax.

Lance Matthews: So you called in the last hour?

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): No, no, no, this was a long, this was when you first started your Madkowz pad,

Lance Matthews: Oh I know...

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Remember when you had me doing everybody in Detroit?

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah, those, they were funny (chuckles).

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Yeah, that was real funny Lance!

Lance Matthews: But anyway, um, what, okay, so specifically you called the radio station and um, I believe that Lflowers ran in the room and, Dave, hey, your here, ah, you said that we were only going to talk about J.T. for the last 45 minutes hour and you told Lflowers cause I was sitting there to a...

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): But I didn't have anything to say about J.T. Colfax.

Lance Matthews: And, and, and..

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): And supposably she was suppose to offer me these options of other things I could talk about but I was cut off now I don't know, did she hang up on me or if we were disconnected but I was, I had a dead line after that.

Lance Matthews: Well now you called in Lori and you wanted to talk about Jameson and when you called in Lisa ran into the booth and said Dave we have a caller and Dave said what is you, what does she want to talk about Lisa said she wants to talk about Jameson and Dave's reply I believe if I remember right was, "Ah, I'm sorry but right now ah, we're going into Colfax and it's only Colfax so if she'd like to talk about Colfax she's welcome to join."

Dave Lucas: And ah, also I might add on there that a, you got to remember a radio show, a, if we could put it into Internet terms a, there are certain threads that you have to follow, I mean, you don't a, in the middle of something you don't stop and do something else just out of the blue, you got to have a thread of continuity to everything to, to bring it all together and keep in mind that one of the things that we've said right from the beginning when we first began doing the series of programs on JonBenet Ramsey that we were going to try to be non-confrontational and we were going to try and respect the people who not only called in but people who were guests on the program unlike what's being done right now on some of these forums and some of these chat rooms where you know, people are tearing each other's hearts out. That's not what we are all about here so a....

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Then why are you having a show about it tonight?

Dave Lucas: (Laughing) Well, this is a different night, this is a different topic, this is the night when we are trying to figure out what motivates people on a, on a broader level an, to try and do things like disrupt forums and trash websites and things of that...let me tell you a story, I was in Mariah Carey discussion group, oh this is going back to around 1995 cause I always like Mariah Carey music so I was in a Mariah Carey discussion group and all the people involved we were like in a mailing list and everybody a sent emails back and forth to this list server then distributed them to us, kind of like a chat room but a little slower and then all of a sudden these really vicious people got in there and started planting all these rumors about Mariah Carey and it got worst and worst and it got to the point that it was almost pornographic so much so that a lot of the younger kids that were in that, a, kids that were maybe 9, 10 or 11, 12 years old who were Mariah Carey fans who there parents let them participate in the chat room suddenly the moderator of the group was getting angry letters from the parents saying they were pulling their kids out of there and they couldn't believe the stuff that was going on and this is something that that seems to a, a, a thread again if you will that seems to run through this entire Internet scenario whereas good people get together and get something good going only to see it brought down by people who seem to have nothing better to do than to a, then to trash it or to try to make it pornographic or to take it in directions where it is not suppose to be going and it is so unfortunate that it is happening more and more on the Internet, ah this in addition to people being stalked by others on the Internet, people having their computers actually a, you could almost say raped by people using some of these program like back door and things to get into your computer through the Internet, extract information and possibly even leave a virus or bomb behind to wipe out your files or mess up your computer. Why on earth would people want to be so mean and nasty and downright evil is it the anonymity of the Internet that does this to people? What do you think about that Lance?

Lance Matthews: You know we live in a very sick world Dave with a lot of sick people and a, people just twist things out of proportion and go crazy for God knows what reason, a, probably, most of the time they really don't have all the facts.

Dave Lucas: Well how about you Lori from Memphis, what's a, what's the deal, why are you, why are you being such a meanie?

Lance Matthews: (Laughing)

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): (Laughing) You are assuming I am some evil witch that...

Lance Matthews: Well a, a...

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): That is just out to get everyone and that is not the case.

Lance Matthews: Lori you came out and you came out with guns a roaring with this hat SamKay and this a....

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): I am not SamKay!

Lance Matthews: Oh I know but your LooLoo, right?

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): I was LooLoo but now I'm Poisnivy.

Lance Matthews: Oh, yes I know. um, and I, and I do enjoy some of your posts but I mean you come out with guns a barreling right after that show cause you weren't allowed on the air to talk about Jameson you assumed you know, whatever but I mean here's the reality your hearing it from Dave, Lisa's here if you want me to throw her on the line for a moment, you know that's just what happened, Dave said....

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): That is not the only reason why I called.

Lance Matthews: Okay

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): The reason why I called is not because I didn't get on the radio show. It's because I was listening after I got home from work and yes I do have a job, I'm a nurse, I'm a registered nurse, I'm the head nurse in fact.

Dave Lucas: Wow, the head nurse!

Lance Matthews: (Laughing)

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): It's all because....

Lance Matthews: I'm not even going to go into that one, that was an open one, okay

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): But... I hear jokes about it all the time. But anyway, my point was Lance is trying to play the victim, like he hasn't done anything wrong and that's not really the case. He has added fuel to the fire.

Dave Lucas: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Lance Matthews: I've...

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): And I am the biggest flamer on the forum, I openly admit that.

Lance Matthews: I totally admit, you know I'm not like oh you guys did but you know what when this forum opened back up I was being really nice, I was being real nice up until the other night I got into a battle with a hat named Copier and came out with some pretty crude things and I said hey you know that Copier's going at it, I don't even care anymore and I went a little overboard and ah...

Dave Lucas: Don't you think, don't you think this happens to other people as well, people who get out there on the Internet, they're nice people, they go out to a chat room or they get on MIRC or somewhere and they start communicating with others and then all of a sudden that little, that little evil ting in humanity that starts to come out and once it comes out and once it feels the power you can't stop it can you?

Lance Matthews: (Laughing)

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): (Can't make out)

Lance Matthews: (Laughing) You know it, it's funny cause I don't know you, you kind of take it to .... to face it your a, you are under an anonymity, at least most of your are a, but it, you can take it to....you can have some fun with it, I mean, you know what I, I often on my little sprints of Madkowz fest and stuff I, I go back and I reflect and I sometimes feel bad about what I posted that it was just on there especially when somebody throw the JBR, it's kind of funny when somebody throws a JonBenet thing like , "oh remember what were here for, we're here to post about JonBenet," and then you read their post from two days ago and they were calling somebody this or that, you know it is kind of ridiculous, I don't know, what I've done tonight while I've been on the phone on the radio, there's now a spot on community forums on general discussion that read "Flame Fest, a place for JonBenet Ramsey posters to flame each other" so now there is a place off of the forum so my commitment, my personal commitment tonight, this is what I will do to help the cause is from now on if I have something to say LooLoo, hey if the Madkowz wants to walk out of the barn for a day and take a dance across the forum they have their own place to go from now on. You know, I am going to keep my BS, my crap and I will just try to post on case but I am just going to keep my of you know vicious spewing on people and retaliating and you know I am going to walk out the better for this.

Dave Lucas: You know some people say that the Internet is a micro Cosmo of humanity. What do you think about that? (Silence) Well, I have left everyone speechless now. (Laughing)

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Are you directing the question to me?

Dave Lucas: Anybody who wants to take it.

Lance Matthews: Lori?

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Go ahead.

Lance Matthews: Very nice accent by the way.

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Thank you.

Lance Matthews: Take it away please.

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): I really seriously think that people take the forum too seriously.

Lance Matthews: (Snickering)

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): I really really do. I mean, yes we flame and yes we call names and yes we do a lot of nasty things but I really think that people take it too seriously. If they would learn to laugh a little bit more I really don't think it would be the problem it has escalated into.

Dave Lucas: It seems like people get so mean and vicious though. It, it doesn't just happen on a place like the Boulder News Forum, it happens in chat rooms. That's why you see people get banned from chat rooms on the Internet. It happens in other places you know it's like a ..... King said, "Why can't we all get along,"

Lance Matthews: hah

Dave Lucas: We can if we just I don't know I think it's a good proposal to just keep the stuff off and but you know of course there are some people who will always ruin it. Me, from this time on will keep my flames over on the other one ah if anybody enjoys Madkowz they'll be, they'll be hanging out on that new, that new little spot on BNF.

Dave Lucas: Okay, well you heard it from his own mouth he's, he's gonna behave himself now and a, Lori from Memphis thanks for your call. Anything else you'd like to say before we go for the break?

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Ah, no, I think that's about it. I think I've had my say tonight.

Dave Lucas: You said your piece and I hope your happy now.

Lori (LooLoo/Poisnivy): Thank you so much.

Dave Lucas: Okay, thanks Lori. It is three thirty your listening to Dave Lucas sitting in for Joe Lirosi on AM590 WROW.


Transcript Is Continued ~ See Below

Dave Lucas Radio Show (WROW Radio)

February 16, 1999 ~ 1:00am-3:00am EST

Lance Matthews Solution to the problems on the Boulder News Forum (BNF)



Dave Lucas: So welcome both of you back to our final twenty minutes or so of the program.

Lance Matthews: Hey thanks Dave. Um, listen I have to say something to Kira on the, on the chat. I am sorry I called you a sociopathic. I, I meant to say I just that what you were posting was blinded, one sided and ignorant not that you were sociopathic, I'm sorry. Ah...

Dave Lucas: And I neglected to mention that Lance is a, while we are speaking on the phone, he who has RoadRunner, you lucky dog you, he is in the WROW chat room chatting with anyone who wants to stop in there and say a few syllables. And type out a few syllables.

Lance Matthews: Now real quick ah, one other thing, this thing with this Gsquared in the latest flame fest on BNF which I have vowed not to participate now in the flame fest but this is how things get escalated like Lori and she had to explain that we, she came on the air, she misunderstood what was happening, she went on the forum and went you know, a little ballistic and I said what was the main, where did this start and she explained it, and we explained what happened behind the scenes that nobody sees but anyway like that other incidents happened, I remember the other day when I was in the studio I read some e-mail, remember that?

Dave Lucas: Yes

Lance Matthews: Okay, ah, that's how the last flame fest started. J.T. posted something about a poster named Wiltonjr um, threatening him in e-mail , ah that I had sent him some e-mail that in the e-mail Wiltonjr had threatened to violate J.T's probation or attempt to violate his probation by doing something and that was misconstrue by people on the forum because I guess a couple got their hotmail hacked into that I had received something that Gsquared had that was from Wilton ah, that described how Wilton was going to try to violate J.T's probation.

Dave Lucas: Talk about convoluted stories, anybody tuning into this right at this moment would probably have no idea what we're talking about.

Lance Matthews: Cool

Dave Lucas: Really, because I mean, the Internet, when you first get on there it's a pretty scary strange little world and learning all these little bits of terminology takes time. Of course once your familiar with it, it's like you can't understand how anyone would not know what it was all about but in fact it the people who don't know the terminology and aren't familiar with it it is just a bunch of gobbleguck, gobblie-gook, let me get that right. Can't speak again. Ah, I just want to ask you guys because a I asked, I asked both of you this earlier but either you didn't hear me or chose not to answer, what is the very latest development besides the one we heard earlier on the CBS news about the new book coming out in the JonBenet Ramsey case, what is the latest, Jameson, can you tell us?

Jameson: Um, well there's a lot of stuff coming out in the book that every, that, that is the big thing but of course the grand jury is still being seated and...

Dave Lusas: What's going on with that anyway, I mean it's, it's, it's like we should have more, more happening than there is.

Jameson: Well the grand jury is behind closed doors, very secret, there, they've been sneaking people in vans wearing wigs because they don't want anybody to know who the witness's are. The witness's are not allowed to talk about what they have said in the grand jury proceeding so it's really pretty much tied up. Nobody knows how long it's going to be. We do know, um, Kane, Michael Kane is running the grand jury and of course he is a special prosecutor. I call him the special persecutor but..

Dave Lusas: The special persecutor (chuckles).

Jameson: Yes, he's the special prosecutor on the case that was brought in, um, and basically the investigators that thought that the Ramsey's might not have done it have been minimized, um, they've just been pushed away from the case and that is what was happening when Lou Smit ended up resigning but others also were tending to be on the defense and you know whoa, maybe it's not the Ramsey's to look other places, they've also been minimized from, from what everyone has said. Um, so were just waiting to see who the grand jury calls in, will they call in Thomas, the police officer resigned saying that the investigation was flawed, he's now going to write a book. Um, are they going to call in Lou Smit, the investigators for the district attorneys office who resigned saying there's clear and substantial evidence of an intruder the Ramsey's are being persecuted and I am not going to be a part of it. You know, are these people going to be called into the grand jury or is the prosecutor only going to call in people that are going to be against the Ramsey's in order to get an indictment is this going to be an investigative grand jury or is it going to be a railroad.

Dave Lusas: Hmmmm.

Lance Matthews: This is also going to be one of these time will tell things.

Jameson: Yeah.

Lance Matthews: As with everything with this case.

Jameson: It will be but from what I understand in the grand jury in Colorado if Michael Kane only presents one side, if he does not present what he knows is exculpatory evidence for example if he doesn't bring Smit in how can he explain that later, um, this man worked for 18 months and he had access to every bit of the evidence from every cop, every investigator, that was his job to coordinate it. If he doesn't call in does that not give, if there is an indictment and you now have a defendant does that not then set it up where the defense can go in and try to negate the indictment because it was not a fair grand jury. There's lots of questions that are going to come out of this Michael Kane may feel that he should present a fair case and bring in Smit and Thomas and everyone else and let the grand jury decide. You know this could come out of it with an indictment, it could come out of it with a, something saying to the Boulder police department and the DA's office that they, they need to further investigate this and try again.

Dave Lucas: Well I get the, I get the distinct impression that something is going to happen because all of a sudden we do have a few stories that are bubbling their way up into the media, we had the a, we had the teddy bear a couple weeks ago and now we have this a little story that's appearing about the book and just the fact that these stories are appearing on National news broadcasts tells me that the media anticipates that something is going to happen in a certain time frame and their sort of a, getting us ready for that by a, by bringing these JonBenet stories a back in.

Jameson: The grand jury is going to....

Lance Matthews: Back up, back up a little on that Dave and you have to realize the Clinton things over.

Jameson: (Chuckles)

Lance Matthews: No more talking about Monnie under the desk and the cigar.

Dave Lucas: Yeah

Lance Matthews: So what do we talk about?

Jameson: But understand the grand jury ends April 21 or 22 so this group of people who are sitting on the grand jury are going to end there term and it would behoove the District attorney, the Boulder police department, the powers to be everybody to have it end before they have to go back and ask for money, more time, you know it's kind of a self imposed deadline that they'd like to get it over by then.

Dave Lucas: Aha

Jameson: So this is all coming to a head now. Schiller started his book 18 months, I mean, you know...

Dave Lucas: All these books it's like a cottage industry, you got all these people writing books and I've got a theory and I've got this and that, you know, what's next, they going to come out the, come out with the JonBenet teddy bear doll, you know, I mean is somebody going to....

Jameson: Well did you say about the paper dolls? There is actually a woman and I have actually seen a set of these paper dolls. There was a woman who came out, oh, almost immediately after the murder and she wanted to market JonBenet paper dolls with JonBenet and all the pageant costumes and she actually had a mock set made up and passed around and I saw it and it was absolutely beautiful but totally, I mean, you know not should have been on the market.

Dave Lucas: What's the word for that, macabre, is that the word, macabre?

Lance Matthews: (Snickers)

Jameson: Dreaming Macabre (chuckles) But a....

Lance Matthews: Boy, I, I just had some great visions here of little, a no this is poor taste but hell, a, vision of a little pull string doll, you know the pull string in the back with the voice, I mean what sound bytes could you actually put out of that child's mouth?

Jameson: I wanna be a cowboy's sweetheart. They a, but there was a movie of the week that was suppose to be made for ABC....

Dave Lucas: Aha

Jameson: Um, one of the people that, the writer that was working on it contacted me a long time ago because he was using my timeline for research, as many of the people have, and he was in touch with Pam Griffin and they were working on this ABC movie of the week and it just kind of been lost because there is no resolution.

Lance Matthews: You know um, what was interesting and I hate to back this up for a minute but what was interesting a, Dave with a lot of things about calling all the guests and talking to all the people off the air for as long as I have and I've stayed in touch with a few of them besides that, ah, was this certain things they said and Dale had brought up something last show that was really really good and I can't remember whether he said it just before he went on or on the air, I really don't remember right now but he had made a statement and it sounded kind of harsh but in reality it was good. I mean, Dale Yeager does the, does the thing with the missing kids and and works on securities, a security person.....

Dave Lucas: By the way, by the way on this Saturday from midnight to four am we'll be doing this show on missing and murdered children and we hope to have Dale Yeager there, we hope to have Doug and, Doug Llyll and his wife, Mary I believe is her name, yeah, Doug and Mary Lyll and we hope to have the Glickman's and a few other folks on from the Internet.

Lance Matthews: Oh yeah, um

Dave Lucas: That will be Saturday night.

Lance Matthews: That should be a really good show, matter a fact I am getting together with that poster, ourputer in a day or so, matter fact on Wednesday, I guess that's tomorrow now.

Dave Lucas: Yes, isn't

Lance Matthews: (snickers)

Dave Lucas: My how times flies when you do an overnight show.

Lance Matthews: And I'll tell you something ah, we're going to map this out and it should be a really good show. Dale will be there also the security dude from Sony Albany will be there and we'll be doing kind of, you know, here's here's the Dale statement, he said, "Hey JonBenet's dead. There's missing kids out there right now that need to be found and there is also kids that will be missing tomorrow that need to be helped now."

Dave Lucas: You know what, I do believe he said that on the air because that's ring bells now.

Lance Matthews: Okay a, you know there's a site out there for missing kids. It's run by I believe "LadyBug" a poster that's in chat right now. The URL that everybody should take down and go visit this site, the familiar http:// then it's members.xoom.com, com/mychild as one word mychild. Once again, that's http://members, m e m b e r s dot xoom dot com/mychild as one word m y c h i l d. We recommend everyone goes see that site ah, I'm really glad that were going to be doing something about missing kids.

Dave Lucas: Oh yeah, well it's, it's, it needs to be done, it's a story that needs to be addressed and people need to be able to hear from the horses mouth so to speak what's going on, how the parents feel about their missing children and also how the investigators feel about cases that they are handling. It's all very important and da and likely the chat room will be open as, as well. Now we have to take one last break and then we'll be back with our guests. This is Dave Lucas sitting in for Joe Lirosi on AM590 WROW.


Dave Lucas: Thank you both for being with us on the program tonight and a, I think it is good that sometimes we take and discuss some of the problems because some of the problems that we run into on the Internet particularly in these chat rooms and MIRC and other places these are the same problems we run into in our day to day lives with other human beings, of course cloak of anonymity I think sometimes makes people say and do things that they wouldn't say and do if we knew who they were.

Jameson: Absolutely, I think if people had to put there names as part with their posts they would do only half of what they do.

Dave Lucas: Aha, And of course a lot of people there are anonymizer sites that you can go through on the web to a mask your identity, all sorts of underhanded things people can do and I do believe that some people actually take the lite in actually finding out about these things and implementing them.

Jameson: I want to say one thing about what Lori said, she said people should laugh and you know, it's a joke but you know, some of us go to that site because of a serious matter, there's a murdered child, there's a family under suspicion, there's a killer no matter who it is, there's a killer on the loose, nobodies in jail for this crime. We're talking about a serious forum, I think that people who want to have fun, laugh, joke, you know a, pick on people should pick a forum where other people are there for the same thing, I don't think they should be going...

Lance Matthews: Jameson they don't, they don't have to pick a forum cause now in general discussion on Boulder News if you turn to general discussion it says, "Flame fest, a place for JBR posters to flame each other," It's a new place to flame. Let's keep it off JonBenet Ramsey forum from now on.

Jameson: But Gary Love and the Boulder News enforces that it's not going to happen because it's people like me who don't want to go there and since they want to flame me they are not going to do it because they want the audience, they they even post it, for a while there you know they were all staying in Justice Watch where I'm banned and Murphy's banned, lot's of people are banned because we're vocal, we're vocal and we're pro-Ramsey, we're not allowed in there, have never been allowed in there and it's not like we did anything to get banned we've never been allowed in there because pro-Ramsey, um, they were in there and then they actually came out an, an, you know Wilton actually posted you know, it was no fun flaming Jameson where Jameson couldn't get upset about it or flame back so they brought it to Boulder News .

Lance Matthews: Like Dave said, there's a lot of sick sick people out there and they use the Internet to, to take their things out on other people.

Jameson: But I, but I think that if Boulder News doesn't enforce it and these people you know I mean, there's enough places they can go and have their fun and fight with other people who want to engage in that kind of activity. I think it is disrespectful to go into the JonBenet Ramsey forum and half the people basically I fight back very very little, I mean, usually I scroll by, I just say what ever, so what, you know. I don't fight back, I'm an easy target, I don't care but I think it's disrespectful to this child to turn this into a place where people go because they want to laugh.

Dave Lucas: Okay we're running out of time. Jameson, I want to thank you for being part of the program and hopefully people will check out the timeline and webbsleuths and a, as always thanks for your dedication and devotion to the case. And Lance Matthews, a, well thank you to you as well. You've really really kept your nose to the grindstone on this entire JonBenet Ramsey case and you've done some marvelous things and hopefully you'll continue with your good work. So thank you very much for being with us and I guess we'll see you on Saturday for our special on missing and murdered children.

Lance Matthews: I hope as many people that are listening tonight or anybody that is listening tonight please tune in, if you got kids ah, if you've got nephews, nieces, if you have anyone you care about a, that, that might be going to college soon or younger, please tune into this show because a listening to these parents talk, it's, it's, it's heartbreaking ah, and it can't be prevented.

Dave Lucas: Okay, thanks a lot Lance and we will see you Saturday night.

Lance Matthews: Okay

Dave Lucas: Okay, bye, bye. And a that's gonna about do it for this session, now we're going to be on the air again tonight tonight, that's Tuesday, February 16th twelve midnight. We're going to have William Thomas on the program.

END of Transcript

The Dave Lucas Radio Show

March 6, 1999 - Chuck Green and Jameson

Partial Transcript


TRANSCRIPT: March 6, 1999

Transcribed by ACandyRose

Lance Matthews: Chuck you just talked about people you were in touch with you and on the phone lines right now is somebody that's just out on the Internet that I am in touch with that I find has a lot of information and I imagine she has a couple questions for you, eh, welcome to the show Jameson.

Jameson: Hi Chuck

Chuck Green: Well hello, well my real name is Chuck, let's start out with talking to real people with real names.

Jameson: I said Chuck

Chuck Green: Yes and you were introduced as Jameson. I don't believe that's a real name

Jameson: Oh, well

Chuck Green: I believe in people standing up and being accountable for their opinions and their public conversation. I do and I expect people to converse with me at that same level so are you Sue Bennett?

Jameson: Oh, yes I certainly am

Chuck Green: Okay, there we go. See it's not really that difficult.

Jameson: No, but I, I did stay anonymous for as long as I could because I didn't feel that, number one I didn't feel that my sex, my gender, my age, my religion should have anything to do with our discussion of the Ramsey investigation. And it was frankly nobodies business and you know your out there earning a buck, your being a reporter. I'm was here on the Internet and there was no need for anybody to know anything about me. I am just an Internet poster. I did give Larry permission to use my real name in the book.

Chuck Green: Okay

Jameson: That, so I'm out

Chuck Green: There your out, okay

Jameson: I'm out

Chuck Green: Okay

Jameson: But I am still Jameson when it comes to this, this case. That is my name so you can call me Sue all you want though.

Chuck Green: That's fine, let's get on with it. (chuckles)

Jameson: Let's get on with it (chuckles). I, I'm not quite sure why you are so a, confused about my role in this, I mean because I….

Chuck Green: Why am I so confused about it?

Jameson: Well you were, you know, it's a, I think that people in Boulder they do know, I mean you talk to the cops they know that I talk to the Ramsey's.

Chuck Green: Well now you know you say I am confused. Let me tell you that I do not, I am not, I don't follow the Internet chat on the Ramsey case closely at all, I, you know I just, I could spend as many of you do my entire waking hours following this case in chat rooms and on bulletin boards and so forth, I don't do that. I don't have the time to do it. I've got many many other subjects that I deal with so I'm not, I'm not intimately familiar with much of the discussion that goes on the Internet in this case. And a, for your specific role and who you talk to, who you haven't talk to, what they said, what you said, I have not followed it very closely.

Jameson; Oh I know but you….

Chuck Green: So if that's confusion or if it's disinterest, whatever, so be it.

Jameson: I think your so busy with real live that you don't need to be on this, the Internet. Ah, I am looking at the chat room and they are saying I am going to sue people for using my real name and who knows my real name. It's public, it's in the book.

Lance Matthews: But what your saying they are going to sue you, ah, or we're going to sue, when they're saying their going to sue other people is the su and e in caps?

Jameson: (chuckles)

Lance Matthews: I'm sorry they do that all the time on the forums.

Jameson: I know, I know, but Chuck you were on Peter Boyles show and Peter Boyles has talked about me several times. I did post Lou Smit's resignation letter before the media did because the media was hesitate to post it in full. And that really wasn't fair, they posted Thomas's resignation letter, they did not post, they were not anxious to post at all of Lou Smit and the journalist who was in touch with me that this letter was going to come out and when it became obvious that the media, I mean it was hours the media did not want to post the entire letter.

Chuck Green: Well you know, if I, well first of all the media can't publish what it doesn't have. I would have loved to have had the a….

Jameson: They had it before I did.

Chuck Green: Letter of resignation the moment he a, a typed the last period and I would have published it in full in my column but I can't if I don't have it. If you received it before I did or before some other publication did more power to you. That can't be held against the media for not printing it if we don't have it.

Jameson: Well I know AT had it..

Chuck Green: Lou Smit said, Lou Smit said he would not release that letter and, and he did obviously.

Jameson: Well AT had that letter before I did and, and they did not, it was hours, I mean I know that they had it like two o'clock and I didn't publish it till seven or eight I think but ah, I am just saying that my name has come up, Jameson has come up on Peter Boyles show for that for ah, I believe for talking with the Ramseys.

Dave Lucas: For the benefit, for the benefit of the people listening who are listening who are unfamiliar tell us a little bit about this Peter Boyles character.

Jameson: (chuckles)

Chuck Green: Well Peter Boyles is a talk show host in Denver, he, he has a morning drive time talk show on an AM station here that has a considerable audience. I think now his program is rated at somewhere in the like four, five or six among the twenty-seven stations in Denver. He's been in Denver for quite some time, he started out here as a traffic reporter, he has written for a city magazine, he's worked for four or five different stations in various capacities but he is considered now to be leading or one of the top two talk show hosts in Denver. He has focused on the JonBenet Ramsey case since the first week. He frequently devotes his entire four hour program to discussion of this case and sometimes he does that several consecutive days so that in a nut shell is who he is.

Dave Lucas: Okay, Jameson, you have any comment?

Jameson: (chuckles)

Chuck Green: And I, let me also add that he has made it quite clear on the air that he believes that Mr. And Mrs. Ramsey in one, to one extent or another both are involved in the murder of their child.

Jameson: Thank you, yes, I was going to say he is one of the leaders, one of the leaders of the lynch mob and he has welcomed Internet members of the lynch mob on his show. He is quite pointed in his position and he certainly does not care for me. But he has mentioned me a few times on his show and it's not been flattering. I am not sure if you have been a guest on his show when my name's been mentioned but my name's been thrown around, thrown around for months now.

Chuck Green: But there were….

Lance Matthews: I do have to say Jameson it's not really fair to call all the Anti-Rams a lynch mob.

Jameson: I didn't say all Anti-Rams were, I did not say all

Lance Matthews: That there's a lynch mob, that would be as effective as me saying there is RST.

Jameson: I don't believe your part of the lynch mob and you believe that the Rams, that Patsy did it but that's neither here nor there.

Lance Matthews: Oh definitely

Jameson: There's, you believe it and you come in and you give me reasons why you believe it. The lynch mob wants to hang them and doesn't even discuss evidence.

Dave Lucas: Well I kind of go with the Burke did it theory but I guess we have to see exactly what happens there

Chuck Green: Are you serious about that?

Dave Lucas: Yes, absolutely

Chuck Green: Let me address that............



The Dave Lucas Radio Show

Radio Promo April 3, 1999



Judith Phillips and Frank Coffman LIVE

matthews - 04:42am Apr 2, 1999 MST

Thank GOD for the first amendment!!!!

Invitation to Listen-IN



AM 59O WROW, Albany NY


Dave Lucas and WROW present....


Continuing coverage of the JonBenet Murder case.

Saturday's broadcast will highlight the personalities of the main characters in the JBR murder case. We will hear first hand accounts of interactions with the Ramsey family, as well as some personal stories about JonBenet. The evenings guests will include;

Judith Phillips (JonBenet's photographer) Judith has know Patsy since 1983 and her child was a playmate of JonBenet's.

Frank Coffman (photo journalist and independent reporter) Frank is a resident of Boulder, Colorado and has closely been following this case and it's main players since the beginning. He brings a very objective view to a very convoluted case.



Listeners will be treated to a URL of an exclusive black and white photo of Patsy and JonBenet Ramsey, courtesy of Judith Phillips Photography Studio.


Our past internet broadcasts about JonBenret Ramsey included controversial guests such as;

PAM PAUGH (Patsy Ramsey's sister)

Laurence Schiller, Author of "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town"

Darnay Hoffman (NY lawyer pushing indictment on handwriting)

Linda McLean, Author of "JonBenet's Mother" And Ramsey friend.

Dr. Andrew Hodges, Author of " A Mother Gone Bad" (text analysis)

Dr. Cyril Wecht, Forensic Pathologist and Co-Author "Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey"

Charles Bosworth, Co-Author "Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey"

Dale Yeager, Consulting Investigator (his reports are at www.seraph.net)

Steven Singular, Author of "Presumed Guilty"(due to be released)

Dwight Wallington, Author of " Little Girl's Dream"

Stan Oliner, Curator for The Colorado Historical Society

Chuck Green, Columnist for the Rocky Mountain News

Patricia Calhoun, Editor of Westword

Richard Flemming, Editor of The Boulder Weekly

Justin Mitchell, Independent Reporter

Mrs.Brady( Mrs.Brady's URLs)

And others.....

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The Dave Lucas Radio Show - April 3, 1999

Partial Transcript

Judith Phillips & Internet caller named Brenda


Listen to audio file from transcript



Dave Lucas: From the Internet we have Brenda on the line calling from North Carolina, right Brenda?

Brenda: That's right

Dave Lucas: Okay and she's got some questions for you Judith

Judith Phillips: Okay

Brenda: Yes, um, Judith, I would like to know why you sold the pictures you sold of JonBenet to the tabloids?

Judith Phillips: Um, I explained this on Larry King live before.

Brenda: I don't get CNN

Judith Phillips: Oh you don't

Brenda: No, so that's why I would like to know. It bothers me that you did that.

Judith Phillips: Well that's your opinion

Brenda: I mean it's kind of like the Linda Tripp of Boulder.

Judith Phillips: Ah eh

Brenda. I mean that's the way I see it

Judith Phillips: Well your entitled to your opinion and I have the photographs and I kept them secure in a safe for many many months because I was afraid somebody would break into my house and steal them.

Brenda: Ah eh.

Judith Phillips: And I had many many people at that particular time approaching me, ah, about the photographs that I was……

Brenda: See I would have admired you if you had kept them till it was all over and then done something with them but I think the time that they were released was sort of a disgusting thing to do. You know I was just wondering why you did it.

Judith Phillips: Well because, um, at that particular point I was approached, I was, I had several friends from the publication that approached me

Brenda: I mean was it for the money? Is that why you did it?

Judith Phillips: No it was not

Brenda: Okay

Judith Phillips: Because I had been um, constantly hounded by people who wanted to see my photographs and my photographs were quite different than what most people had seen before and I was not equipped nor did I want to be able to a photography agency to handle all those requests so the publication said they would do that for me.

Brenda: Did you offer it to the Ramsey's first?

Judith Phillips: Did I offer?

Brenda: The pictures

Judith Phillips: No I did not.

Brenda: Did you offer it to their family?

Judith Phillips: No, I did not

Brenda: You just took it on your own to put them in a tabloid, is that right?

Judith Phillips: Well I owned the pictures

Brenda: Yeah I know, I am aware of that

Judith Phillips: Ah eh

Brenda: I mean I was just asking the question. They weren't aware that you were going to do this with the pictures?

Judith Phillips: I don't know, I can't answer that

Dave Lucas: Judith, are there any other photographs that did not get released?

Brenda: (can't make out first part) I mean she could pick up a few hundred dollars you know

Judith Phillips: Well ah, are you finished now?

Brenda: Yeah, I was listening to you honey

Judith Phillips: Okay, well I think I am finished talking to you too.

Brenda: Okay, thanks

Dave Lucas: Okay, well thanks for your call.

End of transcript…………..