02/19/2008 (www.cnn.com) Nancy Grace Show

Convicted Cop Killer To Testify to Drew Peterson Grand Jury


PLEASE NOTE: This original official transcript has been (SNIPPED) to include ONLY information discussion on the Stacy Peterson and/or Kathleen Savio case.



Convicted Cop Killer to Testify to Drew Peterson Grand Jury

Aired February 19, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, the mystery surrounding a missing 23- year-old mom Stacy Peterson, vanishing from upscale Chicago suburbs, husband/cop Drew Peterson, the prime suspect in his fourth wife`s disappearance. The suspicious bathtub drowning of his third wife now reopened. Tonight, new subpoenas served as a secret grand jury meets behind closed doors. Is a convicted killer somehow linked to Drew Peterson? And tonight: Is the family of wife number three set to file a wrongful death lawsuit against Peterson?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Once convicted cop killer Anthony Rock has reportedly been ordered to testify in front of the grand jury investigating the death and disappearance of Drew Peterson`s last two wives. Rock met Peterson on opposite sides of the law while Peterson was undercover in a narcotics squad in the `80s. Stacy Peterson, missing since October, husband Drew Peterson convinced she`s run away with another man, but Peterson remains cops` only declared suspect.

DREW PETERSON, SUSPECT: I`m the husband, you know? I`m the husband. You always look at the husband. There`s a lot more I`d like to say to you, but I can`t. I`m a suspect, officially, but I think I was a suspect from the beginning.



GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. First tonight, new subpoenas as a secret grand jury investigates the disappearance of a former cop`s fourth wife and the highly unusual bathtub drowning of wife number three.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anthony "Bindy" Rock, alleged to have Mob ties, has reportedly been subpoenaed in the Drew Peterson investigation. Reports say police served Rock to testify in the grand jury investigating the death of wife number three, Kathleen Savio, and the disappearance of wife number four, Stacy Peterson.

Rock met Peterson on opposite sides of the law while Peterson was undercover in a narcotics squad. Rock has a long rap sheet, including involvement in the murder of a police officer. Drew Peterson tells "The Chicago Sun-Times" he can`t understand why prosecutors want to question Rock because all Rock knows is, I tried to buy dope from him a couple of times. Peterson`s fourth wife, Stacy, still remains missing. Peterson claims his innocence but still remains the only official suspect.


GRACE: Updates in the case against prime suspect, former cop Drew Peterson. Is he linked somehow to a convicted killer? Out to Mary Frances Bragiel, reporter with WBBM Newsradio 780. Mary Frances, what`s happening?

MARY FRANCES BRAGIEL, WBBM NEWSRADIO 780: Well, basically, we`re trying to get more information on this Anthony Rock. I`ve talked to a few of my sources who know nothing about this guy. Even a spokesperson for the Chicago Crime Commission that deals with organized crime knows nothing about this guy. Now, Drew Peterson tells me that he dealt with him more than 25 years ago. He sold drugs to Drew Peterson during an undercover narcotics operation, and he was able to -- as part of that, Drew was able to get him arrested and charged and convicted. Drew believes that he`s got a book deal going, which is why the grand jury has subpoenaed him. It`s a book deal about Drew Peterson.

GRACE: OK. Let me get something straight, Mary Frances. With us, Mary Frances Bragiel, and shortly, we`ll be joined by "America`s Most Wanted" Ed Miller, also covering the case. Mary Frances, this guy, Anthony Rock, has quite a history. Now, you`re telling me that Drew Peterson put together a case that got this guy convicted on drugs. Is that the same case that was reversed on appeal?

BRAGIEL: This was -- no. Back in 1970, he was convicted of killing a Joliet detective, but that was overturned. They realized it was friendly fire. Apparently, it was another detective that killed this detective. So then back in `85 is when Drew Peterson was involved with an undercover narcotics operation. Again, he got this Anthony Rock convicted 20 years, and that was overturned on appeal. I do want to mention that...

GRACE: Whoa, wait, wait. What was overturned on appeal?

BRAGIEL: The second, 1985, conviction.

GRACE: The drug conviction?

BRAGIEL: Yes, that`s right.

GRACE: OK. Because it`s my understanding the cop killing conviction stood under the legal theory of felony murder. At that time, Anthony Rock was in the middle of robbing a liquor store, opened fire, one cop accidentally shot another cop, friendly fire. But because he was in the middle of a felony and a death occurred, that equals felony murder.


GRACE: So are you telling me that the drug conviction which Drew Peterson helped gain was reversed? That`s my original question.

BRAGIEL: Yes, that was reversed. Exactly.

GRACE: Interesting. To Ed Miller with "America`s Most Wanted." What do you know, Ed?

ED MILLER, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Well, first of all, let`s make it crystal clear Rock is a convicted killer.


MILLER: And he was involved in this so-called secret undercover investigation that Drew Peterson got himself into a lot of trouble -- let`s remind people about that. He was actually fired over this because he was doing this unauthorized secret investigation in which drugs were involved, et cetera, et cetera, with this reputed mobster, shall we say. So again, on appeal, Peterson gets reinstated, but there`s always been this dark cloud over his head because of that incident.

So what I believe is going on is police are leaving no stone unturned. They`re going back and looking at every single person that Peterson has some sort of involvement in. And I believe it`s because of his arrogance. In other words, he has angered police to such an extent that they are bending over backwards, looking for clues. And I think that is why they`re going after this guy Rock.

GRACE: Joining us tonight is Drew Peterson`s defense attorney, who`s a veteran trial lawyer in that jurisdiction there in Chicago. Joel Brodsky is joining us. Mr. Brodsky, thank you for being with us.


GRACE: Why was your client, Drew Peterson, now the chief suspect in his wife`s believed death -- why was he in a secret investigation, a drug investigation that even his own superiors knew nothing about?

BRODSKY: Well, I know that the appellate -- two appellate court judges, in reinstating Drew to his job, found that he didn`t do anything that serious. But as a narcotics officer back in the `80s, they were kind of loose canons, so to speak. He was independent in running his investigation, they found a little bit too independent. But it did net a very serious criminal, a cop killer, selling large amounts of amphetamines. And he did put him in jail for a while until it was reversed by the appellate court.

GRACE: Why was it reversed? Why was your client`s case that he made reversed?

BRODSKY: That`s a good question. You know, I checked -- I went on line, the Lexis/Nexis case law service, to see if I could find the appellate court opinion reversing the opinion -- reversing the conviction, but it`s an unpublished opinion. So we`ll never know the reason why.

GRACE: Interesting. Now, back to my original question that I didn`t quite hear an answer to, Mr. Brodsky. That would be, why was your client conducting an extensive drug investigation as an undercover narcotics agent dealing with dopers that even his own bosses didn`t know about? Why?

BRODSKY: Well, according to Drew, that was par for the course. They were pretty much independent contractors. They could conduct their investigations as they saw fit.

GRACE: You know, after all my years as a narcotics prosecutor, I`ve never heard of that.

BRODSKY: They were very loosely manned. The metropolitan area narcotics squad was very loosely governed by the multiple jurisdictions that were covered, and the officers could almost, to some extent, start and pursue their own investigations.

GRACE: Really?


GRACE: Is that why they fired him?

BRODSKY: No. They had a report -- they found that he didn`t report enough and frequently enough, and that`s why he was suspended for a period of time without pay. But all the appellate -- two appellate court judges found that he didn`t do anything that serious enough to warrant him being fired. So it wasn`t all that serious.

GRACE: Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, weigh in.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Nancy, he was part of a task force, similar to I was for six years with the FBI. He was what -- I guess it sounds like he was what you call freelancing. Now, even if you find someone as a result of another case you`re working on and you target this person, you know, you still let your supervisors, whoever it is -- the DEA, someone with Chicago police, whoever was running that task force, they need to know what was going on.

This was an unsanctioned undercover investigation. And there`s no room for freelancing, especially when you`re dealing with drug dealers. I mean, you know, I don`t understand -- you know, he was let go for disobedience and conducting a self-assigned investigation. That sounds like freelancing to me. Is it enough to lose your job over? Absolutely. But he didn`t. Two judges said, You can have it back.

GRACE: You brought up a really interesting theory, Mike Brooks, of a freelance undercover narcotics agent. Never heard of it.

I want to unleash the lawyers. To Ray Giudice. Ray, let`s bring it back to the current investigation. All this happened over 10 years ago.


GRACE: What does this guy, a reputed mobster, dope dealer, convicted cop killer -- what does he know that is so much about Drew Peterson, he can literally write a book?

GIUDICE: Well, I don`t think he knows much. I don`t think there`s any reason why it`s been six months before he`s been brought before the grand jury all of a sudden. He`s not going to be subjected to cross- examination by Mr. Brodsky. I think he probably is concocting some story. And I`ll bet there`s a whole lot of defendants that Mr. Peterson, when he was an officer, put in jail that would love to get a free day in front of the grand jury and some coffee and some doughnuts and come up with some kind of story.

GRACE: Yes, I know how convicted killers just love coming before a grand jury. Don`t agree with any of that. Sue Moss, what`s your opinion?

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Oh, you`ve got to be kidding me! Apparently, this guy has enough to say that the prosecutors put him before the grand jury. This guy may come up with who knows, but it really might be interesting. And God willing, it`s the clue that leads to the solving of this mystery.

GRACE: Julia Morrow, how much credibility can a grand jury give a convicted cop killer, Anthony Rock?

JULIA MORROW, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not much, Nancy. And all this is, is an attempt...

GRACE: Wait a minute!

MORROW: ... to dig up dirt...

GRACE: Julia...

MORROW: ... from every single source to sully his character.

GRACE: Hold on. Hold on.


GRACE: Who do you think he would hang out with? Who was Drew Peterson hanging out with, nuns and priests and virgins? No. He`s hanging out with somebody like Anthony Rock, that knows so much about him he can literally write a book.

MORROW: Yes, but Nancy, first of all, it was undercover. It was only in short spurts. It was 20 years ago. And people can write books out of anything, Nancy, and you know that.

GRACE: Oh, really? Have you ever heard of libel and slander?

MORROW: Yes, the book could be 50 pages, for all we know.

GRACE: You cannot -- no, freedom of speech...

MORROW: Nancy...

GRACE: As I was saying...

MORROW: ... three quarters of the book could be about his life.

GRACE: ... freedom of speech is not unfettered.

MORROW: Right. There could be three chapters...

GRACE: You cannot print...

MORROW: ... about Drew Peterson, and the whole book is about, you know, Anthony Rock`s life and how tragic it all is and how he ended up to be who he is. And you know, a small portion of that book is...

GRACE: Yes. Wrap it up.

MORROW: ... is contributed to Drew Peterson, Nancy.

GRACE: OK. Thank you, Julia.

MORROW: Thank you.

GRACE: As I was trying to say, you cannot print libel or oral slander. There are rules against that. Freedom of speech is not unfettered. For instance, you can`t run into a theater and yell "fire" when it`s not true. So don`t let`s mislead the viewers to think you can just publish anything and there are no repercussions.

MORROW: Nancy, I didn`t say that. Of course there`s repercussions, but if the book`s about him, mostly him and not Drew Peterson, that`s not libel or slander.


GRACE: Giudice, why are you shaking your head up and down...

GIUDICE: Well, Nancy...

GRACE: ... like you`ve read the book?

GIUDICE: Nancy, first of all, there is no book. There`s no protection for libel and slander in front of a grand jury. And if this guy was so important, where has he been for the last six months, hiding under the rock?


GRACE: I don`t know. But I guarantee you Drew Peterson knows.

Out to the lines. Kathy in Oklahoma. Hi, Kathy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. And I want to congratulate you on your babies. They`re absolutely beautiful.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got a question. If, in fact, she was alive, don`t you think that she would have already contacted the authorities and said, Hey, guys, let`s cut all this off, I am alive, I`m OK, I just left, you know, like that runaway bride? I mean, this just doesn`t make sense. And he and his lawyer are so cocky that I would not put it past them both to be involved in this.

GRACE: You know, Kathy, that is an excellent question. Why wouldn`t she have called in to call off the search for her? Another issue on that same vein, Kathy in Oklahoma -- to you, Joel Brodsky -- this is Drew Peterson`s defense attorney. Mr. Brodsky, whatever happened to all of these leads that you came up with or your client discovered? He`s always discovering evidence. You claim that she`s seen here, she`s seen there, but nothing ever comes of it.

BRODSKY: We`ve not -- nothing has ever borne any fruit, that`s true. We`re still looking. Nothing new has developed lately, neither from the state police or from our private investigators. One thing about her being found or being -- or coming forward -- I`ve asked that the state`s attorney`s office come forward and tell her that there would be no repercussions at all if she came forward, that she wouldn`t be any trouble...

GRACE: You said that last time...

BRODSKY: ... and they`ve refused to do that.

GRACE: ... you were on the show because it makes absolutely no sense...

BRODSKY: Well, there is a felony...

GRACE: ... because there are no charges, no criminal charges...

BRODSKY: Yes, there is a felony...


BRODSKY: There`s a felony disorderly conduct law in Illinois that could easily be applied to this situation.

GRACE: Disorderly conduct? You know what?

BRODSKY: Felony disorderly conduct. It`s a felony, a class four felony punishable by...

GRACE: Under what theory?

BRODSKY: ... three years in the penitentiary.

GRACE: Quickly.

BRODSKY: Yes, causing a false investigation and false reports knowingly. And that`s what she would be doing if she knew an investigation was going on.

GRACE: I thought you said she just ran away with another man? How is that knowingly causing a felony-...

BRODSKY: By knowing that she`s been reported missing and not...

GRACE: You`re talking in circles.

BRODSKY: No, I`m not.


GRACE: I`m going to give you a chance to explain yourself.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anthony "Bindy"` Rock has reportedly been ordered to testify in front of the grand jury investigating Peterson`s last two wives, the grand jury meeting in secret for months, investigating what happened to Peterson`s wives. Rock met Peterson in the `80s when Peterson was undercover in a narcotics squad and Rock was on the opposite side of the law.


GRACE: Tonight`s new subpoenas being served in the case. Not only that, but is wife number three`s family gearing up for a wrongful death suit against the defendant Peterson? You`re seeing video -- the investigation is still going on.

Out to the lines. Matt in Indiana. Hi, Matt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is simply why do we believe anything from Mr. Peterson or his attorney, being his wife has been missing for this long? And as a man, I mean, I would be, like, you know, There`s got to be something wrong. My wife hasn`t shown up, and wow, something`s wrong. So his level of per se concern is really very concerning.

GRACE: Let`s go out to psychotherapist Lauren Howard. Lauren, the fact that he is calling in to radio shows, making jokes about entering the dating scene, how difficult it is for him to get a date...

LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: And he`s being told by counsel not to. I mean, he`s being advised to be quiet and he can`t shut up. You want to talk about hubris? You want to talk about arrogance? My sense about this guy is he`s charming, he`s a player, he`s a mover, he`s a shaker. He`s got a lot of secrets about a lot of people, and he`s been able to fly under the radar because of that. And it looks to me like what they`re going to do is try to leak out some of the dirt on him that implicates him in bad behavior.


STEVE DAHL, WJMK-FM RADIO HOST: I don`t want to -- I don`t want to, you know, compromise anybody`s, you know, situation here, so -- I do believe in innocent until proven guilty.

PETERSON: Well, thank you. I wish the rest of the world and this country did.

DAHL: Yes. Well, you have a missing wife. We can`t help ourselves.

PETERSON: I understand.



GRACE: Welcome back. New developments in the case of Drew Peterson, the chief suspect in his wife`s disappearance. To Dr. Joshua Perper, medical examiner and author, joining us from West Palm Beach, Florida. Dr. Perper, if her body is found at this juncture, what, if anything, can we decipher from it?

DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, we will be able to decide whether there are any injuries to the body, whether we can identify easier the body or we need the DNA fingerprinting. And we can find out whether she was assaulted, raped, what was the cause of death and what was the manner of death, whether she was beaten or stabbed or strangled, or whatever was the particular cause of death.

GRACE: Would there still be any soft tissue left to determine some of those things?

PERPER: Well, considering that they had a pretty difficult and very cold winter, I think that this might help considerably to preserve the soft tissue, especially if she was actually buried.

GRACE: Out to Ed Miller with "America`s Most Wanted." Ed, what do you know about the death of wife number three, the very suspicious drowning in the bathtub death, the dry bathtub, and a possible wrongful death lawsuit against Drew Peterson?

MILLER: Well, first of all, I`m a firm believer that wife number four -- and the reason that wife number four is no longer with us is that she knew something about the questionable death of wife number three. And as far as the lawsuit goes, we know the Savio family is moving toward some sort of lawsuit, some sort of wrongful death lawsuit because of their loved one dying under mysterious circumstances.

GRACE: Ed Miller joining us from "America`s Most Wanted."


Thanks to our guests but especially to you for inviting all of us into your home. And tonight a special happy 81st birthday to Ohio friend of the show Peggy Dean. Happy birthday, Miss Peggy.

See you tomorrow night, everyone, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.