2003-07-26: River's Websleuths Forum titled,
"Killer Boat Man (Revisited old thread)"
WS Addict !
Posted - 07/26/2003 : 12:12:16 AM
I am posting my old thread originally called "What If". I have the entire thread saved, but am only posting the beginning of my original thread, not knowing if it is OK to repost others posts that responded to my original thread. Let me know, and I will tuck them in later.
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What if the 'Killer Boat Man' in Waterford MI was telling the truth?
What if someone who represented themselves as John Andrew Ramsey (does not mean it WAS John Andrew Ramsey) to the sometime police informant was serious about wanting JonBenet OUT OF THE PICTURE.
Who might this person have been (who was representing himself as John
Why was 'Killer Boat Man' dismissed as being not 'reliable'. Why was the total investigation (from all that I read about it at the time in the media) a 'mere' phone call from Boulder detective (believe it was Jane Harmer - correct me if I err on that) to the Waterford PD, who dismissed 'Killer Boat Man' as 'unreliable'. Seems he was reliable enough to pinpoint people that were into drugs and criminal activity so the the police could press charges. Hmmm, could it have been that 'Killer Boat Man' had information about the PD in MI that would indicate some framing of some individuals, therefore they MIGHT have discredited him to save themselves, I don't know, I have no facts.
Forgive me I do suffer from hallucinations from time to time. My memory is getting rather mushy after 6 + years of tossing written information around from the media, info from rumor folks, info from other posters taken as reliable (but not), info from 'Killer Boat Man' who was deemed unreliable.
This encounter between the (Person who represented himself as John
Andrew Ramsey Jr) and 'Killer Boat Man' was said to have happened in the summer of 1996 I emphasize the year because that is the EXACT same year that JonBenet was murdered. Coincidence or?
Only someone (in this case a person who apparently said he was John
Andrew Ramsey) who was either drinking or on drugs would be thinking he could escape serious injury himself by merely jumping out of the 'tiny boat' (that he and JonBenet would be in when the 'accident' happened), before 'Killer Boat Man' and his BIG boat would hit the 'tiny boat' head on.
'Killer Boat Man' did not come forward until February of 1997, soon
after he discovered the Ramsey family and little murdered JonBenet. He apparently added 1 plus 1 and got a 2, and stepped forward. He had
absolutely nothing to gain by doing so.
I find this whole section of the mystery of who the intruder was to be more than just a made up story. I believe the 'intruder' if there was one is the entire key to the Who, What, Where and When for the
I also find it ODD that the Ramsey family (at least it was not reported in the news that they did) DID not find out the WHO that was
impersonating their son, John Andrew Ramsey.
Maybe because they already knew the WHO, do you think?
Twilight has magnificent analysis of the structure of the ransom note, and it points to PR, if my mushy memory serves me.
Time will tell, all we really know is that JonBenet Ramsey is indeed
dead, and was murdered under extremely suspicious circumstances.
God bless this tiny soul. May her torturers rot mentally, and hopefully in prison, and soon.
Edited July 25, to add this additional comment, was the person who said they were John Andrew Ramsey - in fact a drug supplier that was somehow involved in a drug deal where drugs were supplied and were never paid for? If someone had a great line of credit with a dealer, could they in fact get drugs, then NOT pay and make some people made enough to get even with them or their family?
The man who came forward with this information in Feb of 1997, was a drug informant, so one could possibly figure that the person inpersonating John Andrew had done business with JAR.
To me Killer Boat Man, is the biggest clue the case ever had! Would you not want to know WHO was impersonating your son and trying to negotiate a horrible accident with your daughter? Did the Ramseys pursue this fully or? All I recall reading at that time was that the Ramsey attorneys said that JAR was not in Michigan at the time Boat Man said the proposition was made to him.
Hmmm. Killer Boat Man stepped forward in February 1997, very quickly after the murder in Dec. 1996. I think a major mistake appears to have been made, but of course we are really uninformed about how much work was actually done in invesigating this BIG CLUE, to the WHO that might have killed Jon Benet.
Did the BPD show a picture of JAR to Boat Man, or at least have a picture of JAR along with a string of your average bad guys, in the big police criminal picture scrap book, to see if Boat Man could pick out JAR's picture as 'the' person who wanted the deadly accident, or? JAR never had his picture in the news at that early point in time, so, hmmm.
JAR has an air tight alibi, that could only be untangled by Killer Boat Man, huh, er?
WS Addict !
Posted - 07/26/2003 : 08:07:44 AM
Well boys and girls, Lighthouse has appeared from the depths. Lighthouse has all of the answers on exactly WHO killed little JonBenet, and has led many of us on a merry chase here on JonBenets sleuth forum, in prior months and on other forums.
Now then we have Mark Geragos speaking from the rooftops that Scott and he both know who the real killer is, YET they do not share it with the authorities.
Then we have Lighthouse who also knows who the killers are and has sent the information to everyone who would have an interest in knowing this information, YET no one has been arrested for the murder of JonBenet. I do assume, Lighthouse, that you have sent copies of your information to the Fresh Eyes in Boulder, Tom Be**ett, yes or no?
So given that 'some people' know without fail who murdered two of the most famous victims in our current time, that took my interest at the outset, our world becomes quite confusing does it not?
On your serial killer postings recently, why would you think that YOUR serial killer might not have been MY boatman? Also what makes your serial killer tick, has he kidnapped children of note who had been portrayed in the news? Did JonBenet ever ride his BUS? Did he ever drive a bus in or near Boulder?
I have no real facts, nor do any posters except for you, we only have guesses based upon
media reports, and books. You on the other hand in past postings over time have claimed to know the REAL STORY of the EXACT WHO that murdered JonBenet.
I do believe anything is possible, your thoughts may be better than mine. But do tell me why the only answer the Ramsey attorneys seemed to come up with was that JAR was NOT in MI that summer, when the proposition was made? My wonderment is WHO was it then, and WHY did he come forward with NOTHING to gain by doing so, other than to be made out to be just an 'unreliable' man. Did he tell the police department that he worked as an undercover man for? Did he tell anyone else? IF IF he told the Waterford MI PD, did they discount his story, such as the BPD, Ramsey attorney, Lou Smit, Ramseys, Hunter, and whoever else that you told your story to, did to you? Were you deemed unreliable also, it would seem so, but in our world who knows!
What do you suppose boat man did after he was deemed unreliable, did he tell anyone else? You on the other hand are like the Energizer Bunny, you just keep going. Power to you!
You appear to have appeared to be an 'unreliable person' in the eyes of the BPD, Lou Smit, Ramseys, Ramseys attorneys, and the then DA, Hunter.
I on the other hand, just raise eyebrows, and some agree with me and others don't, life goes on donut?
WS Addict !
Posted - 07/27/2003 : 08:53:51 AM
I lost my most literate post last night, lost three posts on three forums last night. So will shorten this one, and copy and paste to preserve in case it dumps me again, to post at a later time.
Following your train of thought that Thomas lied, which I do not believe that he intentionally did lie. Depending on the ultimate outcome of this strange murder case, only time MAY tell. I would never call Steve Thomas a liar.
BUT given your thoughts about the lying. Consider this, it appears that BPD dropped the ball on the case. They did zero in on the Ramsesy from day one, why ?, because historically they are the number one suspect, even the FBI man who appeared on AM of the 27th said something to the affect, "Look at the family".
Now then if we consider the BPD dismissed the thought of ANYONE else having done the murder, did the Waterford MI PD drop the ball also, having dismissed the Boat Man person as being unreliable?
To lurking posters, any of you that have a relative in Police Work, or any poster who is a police officer, or anyone reading here who has been involved in police investigations I have a question for you.
What does it take 'credential wise' for a police informant to be used as a police informant?"Just how 'unreliable' must a man be, to be used for OFFICIAL police investigation work?
Did the police informant who says he was approached by someone who 'said he was JAR', to create a deadly accident, for a fee of $10,000, did the informant tell this proposition to the Waterford PD? Did they not listen to him, did they dismiss him also?
Given the investigative procedures used by the BPD, that apparently included a mere phone call by BPD Jane Harmer (was the one person I read in the media,that 'investigated this lead), were the Waterford MI PD also quilty in faulty interpretations of Boat Man and his claim?
Why was Boat Man not sat down with a pile of pictures of bad men etc. to take a HARD LOOK at and find JAR (of course a picture of JAR would have to have been placed in that pile, and while they were at it, why not put a bunch of pictures of JAR's friends in the pile. I have seen dozens of crime shows, where the victim pours through literally hundreds of pictures IN A PICTURE BOOK. Surely some official person could have PREPARED such a special book for Boat Man to look at, OR would that have violated an innocent OR real murderers rights?
Edited to add: Twilight points out with her linguistic background that the dead sea scroll ransom note of ransom notes, points all 10 fingers at Patsy as the writer of the note.
Would Patsy write such a note, IF IF she knew that the murder was a direct result of involvement of a young adult member of their family?
Just how much horror can one family endure, plus the horrendous reflection on them as a family.
Could they have decided that given 6 plus years of suspicion they are now ready to follow the trail and reveal the perpetrator, even if it comes back to them in some way. Drug involvement that may have been part of this puzzle, would be far less to deal with than what they have dealt with for these many many years.