[ACandyRose Logo] A Personal view of the Internet Subculture
Surrounding the JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

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This web page is part of a series covering found materials regarding individuals, items or events that apparently became part of what is commonly known as the vortex of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case Christmas night 1996. The webmaster of this site claims no inside official Boulder police information as to who has been interviewed, investigated, the outcome or what information is actually considered official evidence. These pages outline found material which can include but not limited to materials found in books, articles, the Internet, transcripts, depositions, legal documents, Internet discussion forums, graphics or photos, media reports, TV/Radio shows about the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. Found materials are here for historical archive purposes. (www.acandyrose.com - acandyrose@aol.com)
This webpage series is for historical archive and educational purposes on found materials


Evidence - Oversized Bloomies
Bloomingdales Day of the Week Panties


CHAIN OF EVENTS 1997


1997-04-30: Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo

Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo
Also present, Pat Burke, Bryan Morgan, Pete Hoffstrom, Jon Foster
April 30, 1997 - Boulder, Colorado
http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm


(SNIP)


TT: Okay. About what time did you guys end up heading towards the Whiteís house that night?
PR: Oh, about dinner timeish, five or six or something like that.
TT: Okay. Say between. . .
PR: This is on the 25th right?
TT: Right.
PR: Um hum.
TT: Say between three and six, by the time John gets home before you leave for the Whites, what kind of activities were you guys doing. What kind of, what was the family doing at that time?
PR: Um, I donít remember. I just remember I was trying to get clothes ready for four people to go in two different places.
TT: Um hum.

PR: Uh, and the kids were playing then I, you know, got them dressed and then we, they were in play clothes and so we changed and got cleaned up to go over there.
TT: Um hum.
PR: And I think I colored my hair. I think I told you that.
TT: Um hum. So that was in the afternoon?
PR: Yeah.
TT: Okay.

PR: And, and JonBenet, uh, you know, was getting cleaned up and. . .


1997-08-14: Autopsy shows new data on JonBenet

August 14, 1997
Autopsy shows new data on JonBenet
By Michael O'Keeffe
Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer

BOULDER -- They were details known only to JonBenet Ramsey's killer. Investigators were forced to make them public on Wednesday. The entire autopsy report on the murdered 6-year-old, unsealed by Boulder County's coroner nearly eight months after she was killed, revealed previously unknown facts about her death.


-She was wearing a long-sleeved white shirt embroidered with silver sequins in the shape of a star, long underwear, and white underpants with rose buds and the word "Wednesday.''

-She had a gold bracelet on her right wrist with the words "JonBenet'' and the date "12/25/96,'' most likely a Christmas present. The kindergartner was killed sometime after she went to bed Christmas night.

-She was wearing a gold cross on a chain around her neck, and a gold ring on the middle finger of her right hand.

-A red ink drawing of a heart decorated the palm of her left hand.

-The wooden stick used to tighten a cord around her neck and strangle her was 4.5 inches long, broken on both ends and had several colors of paint and varnish. "Korea'' was stamped in gold letters on one end.

-White cord was wrapped around her neck, knotted at the back. One tail of the knot was four inches, the other 17 inches. Similar cord was tied loosely around her right wrist, on the outside of her knit shirt.

-Her underpants and long underwear had urine stains and red marks.


Autopsy details released earlier had detailed a horrible skull fracture and the rope-and-stick strangling that killed her. The autopsy doesn't say what time JonBenet died or give obvious clues about the motive or the killer.

"You won't find many autopsies that tell you who the killer is,'' Boulder County Coroner John Meyer said. "But there are lot of details previously known only to the killer, and I felt the public interest was best served by keeping this under wraps.'' The autopsy proves JonBenet's death was premeditated, said an attorney for John and Patsy Ramsey, the little girl's parents. "The autopsy details released today confirm what we have known for some time -- that this vicious murder was well-planned,'' attorney Hal Haddon said. "The person who prepared the ligature and garrote obviously put a lot of thought into this murder.''
Asked if hearing all the details was hard, Patsy Ramsey told NBC and Channel 9 that "every day is tough. There's not a day that is not tough.''

An Illinois medical examiner who reviewed the autopsy for the News said the tight cord around her neck "indicates some great emotional involvement.'' "Someone really hated this kid,'' said Robert Kirschner, former Cook County chief medical examiner, now at the University of Chicago's department of pathology and pediatrics. "They had a strong desire to be rid of her.'' Another medical examiner, who thinks the report indicates JonBenet's skull was fractured before she was strangled, said the killer tried to mislead police. The killer twisted the cord around her neck and tied another around her right wrist to confuse investigators, said Vincent Dimaio, chief medical examiner of Bexar County, Texas.

CHAIN OF EVENTS 1998


[Patsy Ramsey, June 1998 Interviews]1998-06-23: Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Screen Capture on left is from "CBS 48 Hours Investigates - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth - Present also were Patrick Burke and Ellis Armistead June 23, 24, 25, 1998 - Boulder, Colorado

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (JonBenet's clothing)

0236
16 THOMAS HANEY: Did JonBenet have
17 panties with the names of each day of the week
18 on it?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
20 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. And did she
21 wear those according to the day of the week or
22 was it just kind of --
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Just whatever.
24 THOMAS HANEY: Did she know, pay
25 much attention to what day of the week it was?


0237

1 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
2 THOMAS HANEY: So whatever would
3 come out of the drawer?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding).

5 THOMAS HANEY: Would she or could
6 she have ever exchanged panties with some other
7 girl that she was playing with?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, yeah, probably.

9 You know, if they went swimming or something and
10 got something wet or, you know, it wasn't
11 unusual to have left clothes at our house or
12 somebody else's clothes at somebody else's
13 house.
14 THOMAS HANEY: So they just kind of
15 go in the laundry, maybe get sorted out?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Right, then the next
17 thing you see, say oh, here, something of yours,
18 and --
19 THOMAS HANEY: Could anybody else
20 have worn hers, say the ones that she was
21 wearing Christmas night, the next morning?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Um --
23 THOMAS HANEY: The ones that she
24 was wearing, you said when you put her to bed
25 Christmas night. She wasn't swimming or

0238
1 anything Christmas Eve --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
3 THOMAS HANEY: -- at the Whites or
4 there wouldn't have involved -- or did it
5 involve dressing up or trying things on?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
7 (Answering while question being
8 asked).
9 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean would
10 somebody have had her underwear on?
11 THOMAS HANEY: Something along
12 those lines.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: It would have been
14 very unlikely. I can't imagine, no.

15 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you remember the
16 white panties with the printed rosebuds with the
17 words of the day on it, did that sound like
18 JonBenet's panties?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Could have been.
20 She had a lot of 'em, so, I don't know.

21 TRIP DeMUTH: And how --
22 PATSY RAMSEY: If I saw them, I
23 might recall them.

24 TRIP DeMUTH: How often would she
25 change her underwear? Was she good about


0239

1 changing them daily?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, yes, yes.
3 Usually we bathed every day and --

4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: -- changed her
6 underwear.

7 TRIP DeMUTH: Let me ask you if you
8 remember the last time you remember her bathing?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I believe -- I
10 believe the 24th, before we went to church. We
11 went to 4 o'clock service, so we got dressed up.

12 And I don't believe that we did on Christmas
13 Day, because that was too much for (INAUDIBLE).
14 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recall her
15 another time, her washing her hands after that
16 time that you remember her bath on the 24th?
17 And we talked yesterday about a lot of times
18 that she could have. But specifically do you
19 have any remember --
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I can't
21 specifically say when she would have washed her
22 hands.

23 TRIP DeMUTH: After she bathed
24 though on the 24th, she would have had clean
25 underwear on after that?


0240

1 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, yeah.
2 I am sure she would have had clean
3 underwear on the 25th, though, she'd just not
4 have taken a bath.

5 TRIP DeMUTH: She would have
6 changed them Christmas morning?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Or Christmas
8 afternoon, getting dressed. Christmas morning,
9 you know (indicating a noise).
10 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.


(SNIP)


0243
11 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. And you're
12 pointing in number 2 to this pink clothing item?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
14 THOMAS HANEY: Can you identify
15 that?
16 TRIP DeMUTH: You can see it better
17 on photo 3.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, okay. That's
19 the -- looks like a little pink pajama top, with
20 long underwear.
21 THOMAS HANEY: Was that part of a
22 set of --
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
24 THOMAS HANEY: -- tops and bottoms?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Top and bottom,

0244
1 yeah.
2 THOMAS HANEY: And that, does that
3 appear to be one or the other?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks sort of
5 like the top, because there is a little tag,
6 might be at the neck, you know. It may be
7 inside-out.
8 THOMAS HANEY: And if you can, do
9 you know when JonBenet would have last worn
10 that?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I know she wore it,
12 she had this on Christmas Day.


(SNIP)


0244
19 PATSY RAMSEY: She did not wear it
20 Christmas night, you know.
21 THOMAS HANEY: So when you put her
22 to bed, on Christmas night, do you recall, would
23 that or could that have been in the bed?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: It could have been
25 under the pillow or something, you know.


(SNIP)


0265
22 THOMAS HANEY: Number 18?
23 TRIP DeMUTH: How about the red
24 item in the upper right-hand corner?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: I think it's a

0266
1 little turtleneck, a little cotton turtleneck,
2 and I had wanted her to wear it to the Whites
3 and she didn't want to wear it.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: How did it end up
5 there?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Don't remember.


(SNIP)


0272
24 THOMAS HANEY: I think we left off,
25 finished with number 18, and it's a bathroom, so

0273
1 go to 19
2 PATSY RAMSEY: This one looks like
3 somebody went to the potty and didn't flush.
4 THOMAS HANEY: Okay, is that out of
5 the ordinary?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Not terribly, no.

7 THOMAS HANEY: Did you -- did you
8 take JonBenet to the bathroom prior to putting
9 her to bed?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
11 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have
12 gotten up during the night and gone to the
13 bathroom?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Possibly.



(SNIP)


0388

3 TRIP DEMUTH: Patsy, why the long underwear?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I remember I was digging
5 around for something. I was trying to find the pink
6 ones she wore the night before. I couldn't put my hand
7 on them right quick. And so I went to these drawers
8 looking for the pajamas, and she was just laying there,
9 so I didn't want to raise her up and get everything off
10 of her to put a long nightgown, so looking for pajamas
11 bottoms to put on her. I couldn't find any, and the
12 long underwear pants were in there drawer, so I got
13 those.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Could you have left that drawer
15 open yourself?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Possibly.



(SNIP)


0425
18 TOM HANEY: That I couldn't tell you right at
19 this moment. Do you remember any staining on that
20 pillow the night you put her to bed?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: No. It was dark in there, you
22 know.
23 TOM HANEY: When you put her to bed did you
24 turn on any lights that night, Christmas night.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think so. Maybe. I

0426
1 can't remember. I remember dressing her, her pajamas
2 pants on her. It was dark. I didn't turn on the
3 bright lights because I didn't want to wake her up.
4 TOM HANEY: But back up. John had carried
5 her up and put her on the bed, and then you took it
6 from there?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
8 TOM HANEY: But you never turned on the
9 light?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I probably turned one on in
11 the bathroom looking for the pajamas. I would have
12 been in there.
.

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (JonBenet's clothing)

0426
13 TOM HANEY: How about this pillow, when is
14 the last time in the daytime would you have some time
15 on Christmas day gone in there to put away Christmas
16 presents, to do anything?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember.
18 TOM HANEY: How often would say the pillow
19 case would be changed?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: At least once a week.
21 TOM HANEY: Okay. How about the rest of the
22 day, the bottom tucked in sheets.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: At least once a week.
24 TOM HANEY: Was there a particular day of the
25 week that --

0427
1 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember.
2 TOM HANEY: Okay. I mean, some folks are
3 pretty much on a schedule.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: I'm pretty laid back.
5 TOM HANEY: How about Linda?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I know she did it once a week.
7 I don't know what day she did it.
8 TOM HANEY: So this particular sheet could be
9 on its last day of the seven or -- the holiday it could
10 be --
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Longer.
12 TOM HANEY: Was she expected to come in that
13 day?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: No.


(SNIP)


0428
15 TRIP DEMUTH: Did JonBenet ever have nose
16 bleeds at night?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I remember.
18 Sometimes she might pick her nose, maybe cause it to
19 bleed, but she wouldn't have one of those, you know,
20 dry, you know, to hold her head back kind of thing.


(SNIP)


0434
1 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. Thanks, Tom.
2 TOM HANEY: I think, if we could check the
3 notes where we left off yesterday, 273, four, five and
4 six. We talked about the stains on the pillow.
5 Next is 277. Can you describe that? Tell us
6 what that is.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like her underwear
8 drawer, one of the drawers there in the bathroom
9 cabinet.
10 TOM HANEY: What is in there?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like underwear, a
12 hair band or something, and a pencil, a pen, a pen back
13 there. (Inaudible). A magic marker or something. I
14 don't know why that would be in there, but --
15 TOM HANEY: And in the normal course there at
16 home would just underwear be in there or would other
17 items be in there, too.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Primarily underwear, but
19 she -- often times things would be on the top and fall
20 down in the drawers. But that be unusual for a pen
21 like that to be in an underwear drawer.
22 TOM HANEY: How about other clothing items,
23 would they end up in there or would they be there?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, yeah, you know, those
25 two or three drawers would be underwear, pajamas, you

0435
1 know. So, you know, they may not get in the exact
2 right drawer every time.
3 TOM HANEY: Could there have been the long
4 underwear.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes. I think I had long
6 underwear.


(SNIP)


0456
16 TOM HANEY: How about 378?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: This is JonBenet's floor, her
18 pants.
19 TOM HANEY: Do you recall those particular
20 pants, when she would have worn those last?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Not for sure. Probably
22 recently because they are dropped in the middle of the
23 floor, but I don't remember exactly.
24 TOM HANEY: They are kind of inside out.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

0457
1 TOM HANEY: 379 is a close up of it.
It
2 appears they are stained.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
4 TOM HANEY: Is that something that JonBenet
5 had a problem with?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well she, you know, she was at
7 age where she was learning to wipe herself and, you
8 know, sometimes she wouldn't do such a great job.
9 TOM HANEY: Did she have accidents, if you
10 will, in the course of the day or the night, as opposed
11 to just bed wetting?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Not usually, no, huh-uh. That
13 would probably be more from just not wiping real well.

14 TOM HANEY: Okay. Do you know how long those
15 would have been in that position in 378 on the floor in
16 there?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: It depends when she wore them
18 last.
19 TOM HANEY: Again, do you recall?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember.
21 TOM HANEY: On Christmas day were you in that
22 bathroom at all?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Very likely, but I can't say
24 for sure.
25 TOM HANEY: Had you been in there that day,

0458
1 would you have done something with them?

2 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I got, you know -- that
3 night I got -- I know I got the long Johns for her out
4 of that bathroom.
5 TOM HANEY: Right, out of one of the draws in
6 there.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

8 TOM HANEY: Do you recall seeing those on the
9 floor that night when you got the --
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
11 TOM HANEY: -- underwear.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: They could have been there. I
13 don't know.
14 TOM HANEY: Could have.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Could have been there, yes.
16 Don't know for sure.
17 TOM HANEY: Is it possible that some point
18 during the night she would have gotten up and put those
19 on or thrown them down there or changed in some way;
20 trying to account for those being there.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: I just -- I can't imagine
22 that. No, because I put those -- she was zonked out
23 asleep, so I put her to bed. And she had those, she
24 had worn the black velvet ones to Priscilla's.
25 What she had on earlier that day, I just

0459
1 can't remember. It might have been those. I just
2 can't remember. Could have taken those off, you know,
3 gotten the dress to go to Priscilla's and then left
4 them there.


(SNIP)


0575
8 TOM HANEY: Okay. And did JonBenet
9 have on more than one occasion some vaginitis or
10 infection or--
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she would,
12 like we talked about earlier, you know, her
13 wiping habits weren't terrific. And so she had
14 urinated, maybe she wouldn't wipe properly and
15 her panties would get wet, a little damp, which
16 would cause a little irritation, you know, kind
17 of like diaper rash and the same with you know,
18 bowel movements. You know.
19 So I would use -- a lot of time I
20 used Desitin or something, she had some redness,
21 you know, so I used Desitin.

0576
13 TOM HANEY: You know, how often?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: You know, I don't
15 know. I just kept the tube in her bathroom
16 drawer there. If she complained that her bottom
17 was hurting I would take a little on a tissue,
18 you know, and put it on there. Not very often.


(SNIP)


0578

16 TOM HANEY: How about at bath time?
17 What, is she old enough to take a bath by
18 herself?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
20 TOM HANEY: So who bathed her?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Me.
22 TOM HANEY: Anybody else?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

24 TOM HANEY: Baby-sitters?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if Suzanne

0579
1 were there, she might or my mother would, or you
2 know.

3 TOM HANEY: Did JonBenet ever
4 complain about any inappropriate touching by
5 anybody?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: No.



(SNIP)


19 TOM HANEY: You made three calls to
20 Dr. Buff 's office on December 7. Okay. Just--
21 PATSY RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE).
22 TOM HANEY: Correct? Three in one
23 day. One at 6:28 p.m., one at 6:50 p.m., and
24 one at 6:59 p.m. Do you recall that day?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: To the office or

0580
1 his home?
2 TOM HANEY: To the office.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't
4 remember.
5 TOM HANEY: Would that have been
6 for something like this, to remember?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Seems like I would
8 have remembered, you know.
9 TOM HANEY: Three times in less
10 than an hour?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I just
12 don't --

CHAIN OF EVENTS 1999


[Perfect Murder, Perfect Town]1999-02-18: "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, JonBenet and the City of Boulder"
Written by Lawrence Schiller, February 18, 1999


PMPT Page 240sb

"The CBI had already determined that the stain on JonBenet's underpants-which appeared to be blood and turned out indeed to be blood - was not solely hers. A DlS80 DNA test showed that the stain came from at least two different sources. * After receiving the report, the police contacted the parents of JonBenet's playmates to see if any of the children had ever exchanged clothes with her. Priscilla White said she could not remember her daughter, Daphne, trading clothes with JonBenet, but Daphne told Detectives Arndt and Harmer that she and JonBenet sometimes wore each other's clothes. During their interviews, the police were told that Fleet White had sometimes changed JonBenet's panties.

Months later, Pam Paugh, Patsy's sister, told a TV reporter that she knew White had changed her niece's clothes. The new information meant a lot of follow-up work for the police in the coming weeks."

* A DlS80 test is a PCR-based test that measures the genetic marker known as DlS80 on the DNA strand.

CHAIN OF EVENTS 2000


[Atlanta 2000 Interviews]2000-08-28: Patsy Ramsey Interview - Atlanta, Georgia - August 28, 2000 (Screen Capture on left is from "CBS 48 Hours Investigates - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

Patsy Ramsey Interview - Atlanta, Georgia - August 28, 2000
Interviewed by: Michael Kane, Bruce Levine, Mitch Morrissey,
Mark Beckner, Tom Wickman, Tom Trujillo and Jane Harmer

Ramsey Representatives Present:
Lin Wood, Ollie Gray, and John San Augustine


http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/2000ATL-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

August 2000 Patsy Ramsey Atlanta Interview
(JonBenet's oversize bloomies)


0077
18 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Well, let's start
19 with what - I will make it very simple for
20 you, Mrs. Ramsey. What information are you
21 in possession of or what do you know about
22 the underwear that your daughter was wearing
23 at the time she was found murdered?

24 A. I have heard that she had on a
25 pair of Bloomi's that said Wednesday on them.


0078

1 Q. The underwear that she was
2 wearing, that is Bloomi's panties, do you
3 know where they come from as far as what
4 store?
5 A. Bloomingdales in New York.
6 Q. Who purchased those?
7 A. I did.
8 Q. Do you recall when you purchased
9 them?
10 A. It was, I think, November of '96.

11 Q. In the fall of 1996, how many
12 trips did you make to New York?
13 A. Two, I believe.
14 Q. Do you recall, and again, the
15 same, same qualification I gave you when we
16 started, which is, I understand that you are
17 not going to give me exact dates, but the
18 two trips you made, did you make those with
19 different groups of people?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. The first trip, who was that trip
22 with?

23 A. The first trip was a
24 mother-daughter trip with my mother Nedra
25 Paugh, my sister Pam Paugh, friends Susan


0079

1 Flanders from Charlevoix, Michigan, and her
2 daughter and a friend of Susan's, Ms.
3 Kirkpatrick I believe was her name, and her
4 daughter, and JonBenet and myself.

5 Q. And the second trip you made was?
6 A. The second trip we made was with
7 Glen and Susan Stein.
8 Q. Is that the trip -- which trip
9 was the November trip?
10 A. With the children.
11 Q. Was that -- that is the first
12 trip?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And the second trip that you and
15 your husband and the Steins took, was that
16 also November, but later in the month, or
17 was that a December trip?
18 A. I think it was December.
19 Q. And maybe this will help jog your
20 memory as to time. I believe that was the
21 time of the Christmas parade in Boulder.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Is that correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Were you out of town?

0080
1 A. I remember that.

2 Q. Which of those two trips did you
3 purchase the Bloomi's?
4 A. The first trip.
5 Q. Was it something that was selected
6 by JonBenet?
7 A. I believe so.

8 Q. Was it your intention, when you
9 purchased those, for those to be for her,
10 not for some third party as a gift?
11 A. I bought some things that were
12 gifts and some things for her. So I
13 don't --
14 Q. Just so I am clear, though, it is
15 your best recollection that the purchase of
16 the underpants, the Bloomi's days of the
17 week, was something that you bought for her,
18 whether it was just I am buying underwear
19 for my kids or these are special, here's a
20 present, that doesn't matter, but it was your
21 intention that she would wear those?

22 A. Well, I think that I bought a
23 package of the -- they came in a package of
24 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
25 I think I bought a package to give to my


0081

1 niece.
2 Q. Which niece was that?
3 A. Jenny Davis.
4 Q. They came in, if you recall, do
5 you remember that they come in kind of a
6 plastic see-through plastic container.
7 A. Right.
8 Q. They are rolled up?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. So if I understand you correctly,
11 you bought one package for Jenny Davis, your
12 niece, and one for JonBenet?
13 A. I am not sure if I bought one or
14 two.
15 Q. Do you remember what size they
16 were?
17 A. Not exactly.
18 Q. JonBenet was found wearing the
19 Wednesday Bloomi's underpants, and your
20 understanding is correct, that is a fact, you
21 can accept that as a fact, when she was
22 found murdered. Those underpants do not fit
23 her. Were you aware of that?
24 MR. WOOD: Are you stating that
25 as a matter of fact --


0082
1 MR. LEVIN: I'm stating that as a
2 matter --
3 MR. WOOD: - for a six-year-old
4 child?

5 MR. LEVIN: I am stating that as
6 a matter of fact.



(SNIP)


0082
17 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Ms. Ramsey, your
18 daughter weighed, I believe, 45 pounds;
19 correct?
20 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
21 Q. She was six years old?
22 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).

23 Q. What size underpants would you
24 normally buy for her?
25 A. 8 to 10.


0083
1 Q. Ms. Ramsey, would you say that it
2 would, it is safe to assume that, if she is
3 wearing underpants designed for someone who
4 weighs 85 pounds, who is 10 to 12 years old,
5 that those would not fit her?

6 A. Those -- I mean, I am sure she
7 could wear them, yes, but they wouldn't fit
8 as well as a smaller pair.

9 Q. And as a mother, you would know
10 that someone who is 85 pounds is
11 significantly larger than your little
12 six-year-old?
13 MR. WOOD: Can't we assume that
14 as a matter of 85 is more than 45 without
15 her having to document a mathematical fact,
16 Bruce?
17 Q. (By Mr. Levin) 40 pounds is the
18 wrong size pair of underpants, would you
19 agree?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Okay. What we are trying to
22 understand is whether -- we are trying to
23 understand why she is wearing such a large
24 pair of underpants. We are hoping you can
25 help us if you have a recollection of it.

0084

1 A. I am sure that I put the package
2 of underwear in her bathroom, and she opened
3 them and put them on.

4 Q. Do you know if -- you bought
5 these sometime in mid to early December, is
6 that correct, as far as -- no, I am sorry,
7 you bought them in November?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. Do you recall, was she wearing
10 these? And I don't mean this specific day
11 of the week, but was she wearing,
were you
12 aware of the fact that she, you know, was in
13 this package of underpants and had been
14 wearing them since the trip to New York in
15 November?
16 A. I don't remember.

17 Q. Ms. Hoffman Pugh generally did the
18 laundry for the family, that is part of her
19 duties; is that correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Exclusively, or did you wash
22 clothes on occasion?
23 A. I washed a lot of clothes.

24 Q. Do you have any recollection of
25 ever washing any of the Bloomi panties?


0085

1 A. Not specifically.
2 Q. Was it something that, the fact
3 that she is wearing these underpants designed
4 for an 85-pound person, did you ever -- and
5 I will give you a minute to think about it
6 because I know it is tough to try to pin
7 down a couple of months of casual
8 conversation --
do you recall ever having any
9 conversations with her concerning the fact
10 that she is wearing underwear that is just
11 too large for her?
12 A. No.

13 Q. Knowing yourself as you do, if it
14 was, if it had caught your attention or came
15 to your attention, do you think you might
16 have said, JonBenet, you should, those don't
17 fit, put something on that fits, that is
18 inappropriate? Do you think, if it came,
19 had come to your attention --

20 A. Well, obviously we, you know, the
21 package had been opened, we made the
22 decision, you know, oh, just go ahead and
23 use them because, you know, we weren't going
24 to give them to Jenny after all, I guess,
25 so.

0086
1 I mean, if you have ever seen
2 these little panties, there is not too much
3 difference in the size. So, you know, I'm
4 sure even if they were a little bit big,
5 they were special because we got them up
6 there, she wanted to wear them, and they
7 didn't fall down around her ankles, that was
8 fine with me.

9 MR. MORRISSEY: Did you ever see
10 if they fell down around her ankles or not?
11 THE WITNESS: No.
12 MS. HARMER: But you specifically
13 remember her putting on the bigger pair?
14 And I am not saying --

15 THE WITNESS: They were just in
16 her panty drawer, so I don't, you know, I
17 don't pay attention. I mean, I just put all
18 of her clean panties in a drawer and she can
19 help herself to whatever is in there.
0086
20 MS. HARMER: I guess I am not
21 clear on, you bought the panties to give to
22 Jenny.
23 THE WITNESS: Right.
24 MS. HARMER: And they ended up in
25 JonBenet's bathroom?


0087

1 A. Right.
2 Q. (By Ms. Harmer) Was there - I'm
3 sorry. Do you recall making a decision then
4 not to give them to Jenny or did JonBenet
5 express an interest in them; therefore, you
6 didn't give them to Jenny? How did that --
7 A. I can't say for sure. I mean, I
8 think I bought them with the intention of
9 sending them in a package of Christmas things
10 to Atlanta. Obviously I didn't get that
11 together, so I just put them in her, her
12 panty drawer. So they were free game.

13 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) At the time,
14 how old was Jenny?
15 A. I don't know. Probably -- I
16 don't know. She is older than JonBenet, but
17 I don't know exactly how old she was.
18 Q. Would these panties, size wise, be
19 more appropriate for -- is she an older
20 girl?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And I assume a larger girl?
23 A. Well, at that time, no, not -- I
24 mean, she is not -- I mean, today she is a
25 young woman, but then she was a little girl.

0088
1 Q. How old is she now?
2 A. She is now 15, I believe.
3 Q. So she would have been about 12
4 or somewhere --
5 A. 11.
6 Q. -- 11, 12?
7 A. Yeah.
8 Q. And based on the, I guess,
9 dimensions that Mr. Levin has talked about,
10 these would have been a size appropriate for
11 her?
12 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).


(SNIP)


0090
22 Q. And do they have age groups or
23 are they suggested for like a 10-year-old
24 through a 12-year-old or a 13-year-old
25 through a 15-year-old? Do they do it that

0091
1 way too?
2 A. I never paid any attention if
3 they do.
4 MR. MORRISSEY: Okay.

5 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Let me ask it
6 this way. Did you say you bought more than
7 one set of Bloomi's?
8 A. I can't remember.
9 Q. You bought some for JonBenet?
10 A. I can't remember.
11 Q. Why is it that you remember
12 buying Bloomingdale's panties in November of
13 1996?
14 A. Because --



(SNIP)

.

August 2000 Patsy Ramsey Atlanta Interview
(JonBenet's oversize bloomies)


0092
5 A. I remember that I -- and I, you
6 know, we were kind of shopping around, and
7 it was close to Christmas season, so we
8 might pick up a little souvenir. I
9 bought -- I think I picked up a little
10 something for a baby-sitter, you know.

11 Q. Where was it that you became
12 aware that this was -- where was it that it
13 was made a big deal? What was the source
14 of your information that Bloomingdale's
15 panties somehow were significant that made
16 you then say, wait a second, did I ever buy
17 those?

18 MR. WOOD: Do you have a precise
19 recollection of that event occurring where
20 all of a sudden something happened and you
21 decided it was some big deal?
22 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I
23 mean, my first thought is something in the
24 tabloids, but, you know, they get everything
25 wrong, so --


0093
1 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Okay. Were you
2 aware that these were the size of panties
3 that she was wearing, and this has been
4 publicized, it is out in the open, that they
5 were size 12 to 14? Were you aware of
6 that?
7 A. I have become aware of that, yes.
8 Q. And how did you become aware of
9 that?
10 A. Something I read, I am sure.

11 Q. And I will just state a fact
12 here. I mean, there were 15 pair of panties
13 taken out of, by the police, out of
14 JonBenet's panty drawer in her bathroom. Is
15 that where she kept -
16 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
17 Q. -- where you were describing that
18 they were just put in that drawer?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. And every one of those was
21 either a size four or a size six. Okay?

22 Would that have been about the size pair of
23 panties that she wore when she was six years
24 old?
25 A. I would say more like six to

0094

1 eight. There were probably some in there
2 that were too small.

3 Q. Okay. But not size 12 to 14?
4 A. Not typically, no.
5 MR. KANE: Okay.

6 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) And you
7 understand the reason we are asking this, we
8 want to make sure that this intruder did not
9 bring these panties with him, this was
10 something --
11 A. Right.
12 Q. - that was in the house.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And we are clear that, as far as
15 you know, that is something that was in this
16 house?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- that belonged to your daughter,
19 these panties?
20 A. Correct.

21 Q. (By Ms. Harmer) Mrs. Ramsey,
22 have you ever seen a crime scene photo of
23 the underwear that your daughter was found
24 in?
25 A. No.

0095

1 Q. Did Lou Schmidt ever show you a
2 photo?
3 A. No.
4 Q. (By Mr. Kane) I want to follow
5 up with something you said earlier. You
6 said she would have just gone in and gotten
7 a pair herself?
8 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
9 Q. Okay. Was she -- did she usually
10 dress herself?
11 A. She was pretty much able to dress
12 herself.



(SNIP)


0102

19 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Here's a question
20 that was not asked, Mrs. Ramsey. Did you
21 dress JonBenet Christmas Day?
22 A. I can't remember.
23 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mrs. Ramsey, do
24 you know whether or not she changed her
25 underwear Christmas Day?


0103

1 A. I don't know.
2 Q. We are going to assume the fact
3 that she did not take a bath because you
4 previously stated that. Would she change her
5 underwear if she didn't take a bath on
6 Christmas Day?



(SNIP)


104

12 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Do you know if
13 she changed her underwear?
14 A. I do not know.
15 Q. Would it be her routine habit or
16 practice, if she is going out for dinner at
17 friends, for her to change from head to toe,
18 including her underwear, getting dressed to
19 go out for the evening, even if she didn't
20 take a bath?
21 A. I don't know that there is any
22 particular routine. She may have. I don't
23 know.

24 Q. If she listened to mom, would she
25 have done that? I mean, we are going out,

0105
1 you change from head to toe, wash up?
2 MR. WOOD: You are saying if she
3 had said that?
4 MR. LEVIN: No. I am saying,
5 this child was raised by Mrs. Ramsey, and I
6 am assuming that, in the course of your
7 raising your child, that it was JonBenet, we
8 are going out, even if she hadn't taken a
9 bath, you wash up, you change your clothes,
10 and that would include if she hasn't bathed,
11 change your underwear because she is running
12 around and playing all day.
13 MR. WOOD: Are you stating that
14 is what you do with your children?
15 MR. LEVIN: No. I am asking
16 her.

17 THE WITNESS: I don't, I don't
18 remember the course of events --

19 MR. LEVIN: Okay.
20 THE WITNESS: - really.
21 Q. (By Mr. Levin) So you just don't
22 know whether or not she changed her
23 underpants?
24 A. I don't know.
25 Q. During the course of one of the

0106
1 prior interviews, I think it was '98, but I
2 am not certain, you were asked and stated
3 that, on occasion, she would leave her
4 underclothes at a friend's house if they had
5 gone swimming or gotten wet. Do you
6 remember that?


(SNIP)


0110
3 Q. That on occasion JonBenet may go
4 over to a friend's house, I think you talked
5 about the White's daughter Daphne, and they
6 could go swimming or do something and she
7 might leave her underwear there, get a clean
8 pair from a friend and then be laundered,
9 returned, you would do the same for her
10 girlfriends who may have been -- got wet
11 from swimming or doing, got dirty playing
12 outside. Do you recall saying that?
13 A. Not specifically.
14 Q. Do you recall that occurring then?
15 A. Probably did. I can't say for
16 sure, but --

17 Q. Okay. What I am interested in is
18 whether or not you have a recollection as to
19 whether or not any of the Bloomi panties,
20 and I certainly wouldn't want to pin you
21 down to the day or the week, all right, but
22 do you ever recall any of the Bloomi panties
23 from November to the time of JonBenet's
24 murder being left at a friend's house and
25 then returned to you?


0111

1 A. No.
2 Q. Do you recall any occasions where
3 JonBenet had an accident at school and -- I
4 know that they kept at her school like I
5 think they do at most grammar schools, they
6 have a box of like clean underpants if a kid
7 has an accident at school, do you ever
8 remember her getting to that situation and
9 borrowing panties from the school and having
10 to return them?
11 A. No.

12 Q. Okay. I am slightly confused,
13 and I would like this clarified. When I
14 first started to ask you about the purchase
15 of the panties in November, I got the
16 impression that you were somewhat unclear as
17 to whether you bought two sets or one.
18 In follow-up questions, I got the
19 impression that you felt confident that you
20 only bought one. Do you know?
21 A. I really can't remember.

22 Q. Do you recall that you did -- you
23 never mailed this pair out to --
24 A. Jenny, yes.
25 Q. Okay. So if there was an


0112

1 unopened package, it would have been left in
2 the house?
3 A. Yes.

4 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) Mrs. Ramsey,
5 prior to going to the Whites, did you see
6 JonBenet in panties? In other words, were
7 you at any point, prior to going to the
8 Whites, in the process of her getting
9 dressed, did you ever see if she was wearing
10 panties?
11 A. I mean, I just probably didn't
12 notice. I would, she must have had them on
13 or I would have certainly noticed if she
14 didn't have any on.

15 Q. When you came home and you got
16 her ready for bed, did you notice if she was
17 wearing panties? When you changed her out
18 of the black velvet --
19 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
20 Q. - type pants --
21 A. Right.
22 Q. -- and into the long underwear
23 pants --
24 A. Uh-huh, right.
25 Q. -- the White ones, did you notice


0113

1 if she had a pair of panties on?
2 A. Yes, she did. I believe she did.
3 Q. Why do you remember that? I
4 mean, what do you remember? I just want to
5 know what you remember about that.
6 A. Well, I took the jeans off and
7 put the long leggies on.
8 Q. And you noticed that she had
9 panties on in that process?
10 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
11 Q. You have to answer yes or no.
12 A. Well, I noticed -- I mean,
13 nothing was unusual. I mean, if she hadn't
14 had panties on, it would have been unusual.
15 So --

16 Q. So there was nothing unusual
17 there?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. When you actually removed those --
20 you have -- they are black velvet pants?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And did the panties come down
23 with them when you removed those pants, if
24 you remember?
25 A. I don't remember.

0114
1 Q. If they had, would you remember,
2 or is that too long ago?
3 A. It has been a long time.

4 Q. But did you change -- did you put
5 a fresh pair of panties on her at that point
6 when you were getting her ready for bed?
7 A. No.
8 Q. (By Mr. Wickman) Mrs. Ramsey, I
9 have a daughter myself, and kids do strange
10 things, but was it her habit, when she
11 changed clothes, did she have a routine to
12 put them in a basket if they were dirty?
13 How did that work?
14 A. She usually probably dropped them
15 wherever they came off.

16 MR. WICKMAN: Okay. Thank you.
17 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Was that pretty
18 much her practice with most of her clothes?
19 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
20 Q. I mean, not just her underwear,
21 just they are off, new pair?
22 A. (Witness nodded head
23 affirmatively).


(SNIP)


CHAIN OF EVENTS 2001


[Steve Thomas Deposition 09-21-2001 Wolf vs Ramsey]2001-09-21: Steve Thomas Deposition (Atlanta, Georgia)
Wolf vs Ramsey Civil Action File No. 00-CIV-1187(JEC)

(Screen Capture on left is from "Today Show, October 28, 2002)

APPEARANCES
For Plaintiff: Darnay Hoffman, ESQ.
For Defendants: James C. Rawles, ESQ., L. Lin Wood, ESQ.
For Deponent: Charles P. Diamond, ESQ., Sean R. Smith, ESQ.
Also present: O.M. "Ollie" Gray
Also present: Jay R. Ren, CLVS, Todd Tompkins, Videographer Intern

Steve Thomas Deposition (Atlanta, Georgia)
Wolf vs Ramsey Civil Action File No. 00-CIV-1187(JEC)

(JonBenet's Panties)

244
9 Q. Was there any decision made or
10 conclusion drawn, perhaps is the better way
11 to say it, that you're aware of, from any
12 source, as to whether the panties that
13 JonBenet Ramsey was found in had been worn
14 and washed in the past or were new, in
15 effect, fresh out of the package?
16 A. I believe that was after my
17 departure that that underwear investigation
18 took place.
19 Q. So, again, the state of the
20 evidence with respect to that issue, you do
21 not know, true?
22 A. Right.
23 Q. Do you know whether there were any
24 autopsy photos that showed JonBenet from the
25 standpoint of being able to look at it to
.

Steve Thomas Deposition - 09-21-2001
Chris Wolf vs Ramsey Civil Case

(JonBenet's Panties)

245
1 see whether or not the panties, not the other
2 articles of clothing, but the panties, fit
3 her or whether they were obviously not a
4 correct fit?

5 A. It's my belief from detective
6 briefings that they were referred to as
7 oversized floral panties.
8 Q. Thank you. Were there any autopsy
9 photos is my question?
10 A. Without the long-john over pants
11 covering the underwear, I don't recall seeing
12 any autopsy photos of just the child in her
13 underpants.

CHAIN OF EVENTS 2004


[Forums For Justice]2004-01-14: The Bonita Papers-1999 (Wednesday Panties)
From a poster known as "Spade" on the www.forumsforjustice.org forum posted information regarding a person known as "Bonita." Spade wrote: "These are the unedited "notes" of Bonita Sauer, secretary/para-legal to Dan Hoffman. Bonita intended to write a book from the case documents provided to her boss. But Bonita's notes were sold to the tabs by her nephew. Larry Pozner is a partner in the same law firm. I hope he reads his secretary's notes about this case before he runs his mouth about the Ramsey's. (Again) This is a long file, so I suggest copying to your own computer and printing it out. I have checked the important case info and find it accurate, however there is some BS. Please post your questions." On another postings, Spade wrote, "Bonita is the 1st name of the legal secretary who wrote up the Boulder Police reports, mailed them to her nephew in Oregon who in turn double-dealt them to two tabs for $70,000. Bonita had access to all the BPD reports. Keep in mind that Bonita wrote-up her info in 1999"



"JonBenet was wearing three items of clothing: a white long-sleeved knit shirt with a silver star embroidered in the front, long white thermal underpants and a pair of white panties bearing the inscription, "Wednesday". Both the panties and thermal underpants had yellow urine stains in the crotch area. Reddish stains, which appeared to be blood, also stained the crotch area of the panties. The clothing and exposed skin areas were inspected for trace evidence. A small, narrow piece of green plastic was removed from JonBenet's hair. Both Trujillo and Arndt noted that the green plastic resembled the Christmas garland decorating the handrail of the spiral staircase and other areas of the Ramsey home. A small brown flake was found underneath JonBenet's hair on the left side of her neck; a small piece or white paper was stuck to her right jaw; a white fiber was found on her chin; dark colored hairs were found on the shoulder area of the shirt; dark blue fibers were located on the back of the right shoulder of the shirt; hairs and other trace evidence were located on her shirt underneath both her left and right arms and on the lower part of her shirt; fibers and an eyelash were located on the front of her shirt. All these minuscule items were recovered and placed into evidence."



"After the physical evidence had been collected at the autopsy and from the search of the residence, the next step was testing by the Colorado Bureau of Investigations. Blood had been found on the long-sleeved white top and the "Wednesday" underwear worn by JonBenet, the blanket and nightgown found in the wine cellar, and the duct tape found in the cellar which John reported to have removed from JonBenet's mouth. CBI Agent Kathren Dressel, a DNA and serological testing expert with 25 years of experience, performed the DNA testing on these items and positively matched the blood to JonBenet."



"Agent Dresselís next task was to run DNA testing on the panties worn by JonBenet. Again, Dressel found that if the DNA was attributed to one person other than JonBenet, the same people could be excluded as a match."



"The DNA samples extracted from the fingernails and the panties, and the two hairs were sent to CellMark Diagnostics, Inc. in Germantown, Maryland for further analysis. CellMark, the largest private DNA testing lab in the nation, became a household word during testimony at the 0. J. Simpson trial. When the FBI labs were criticized for its DNA testing procedures during the trial, CellMark was employed for independent DNA analysis. In the Ramsey investigation, CellMark was able to determine that the primary source of DNA from the fingernail clippings were from a female, and the secondary source was from a male, but that no further conclusions regarding this male could be made. No DNA identification could be made fro the underwear stains or hair other than that JonBenet could possibly be the source."


[Purgatory II Forum]2004-01-30: Puragory II Forum Thread titled,
"JonBenet Ramsey Case - PPP (panty package picture)"


From: JAHAZAFAT 1/30/2004 1:11 pm
To: RTE66 (3 of 24) 1716.3 in reply to 1716.2

RTE66, I appreciate you take the time to care...

I'm trying to verify the package wasn't sealed up like the typical shrink wrap bag rather it had some type of resealable closure. Also if it was made of a material that would have been good to lift fingerprints off of.

I can't get over the hurdle that there were not any other size 12 panties in the drawer as Patsy attests during the Atlanta 2000 interviews. As a matter of fact there were none collected from the house. Michael Kane empatically states all they found were 15 pairs in size 4-6. Was there ever a package? It's come out from unrelibale sources the Ramsey investigators 'found the package' in the house and LL Wood provided it to the DA. This is too incredible.

The foreign speck of DNA is all that leans to an intruder. Everything else has been accounted for. I know the Ramseys went out of there way to replace another 'piece' of evidence and think they pulled it off with the panties too.

The trip to NY where Patsy claims to have purchased this set of panties included two other young girls who could have worn size 12 panties. I'm thinking Patsy borrowed a pair from them.

Probably doesn't matter. They got away with it. But it's like an incomplete puzzle sitting on the kitchen table, I keep looking.



From: RTE66 (Rte66) 1/30/2004 10:01 pm
To: jahazafat (6 of 413) 1716.6 in reply to 1716.5

Here are the three photos I have of the Bloomie's bloomers sets from a Year 2000 catalog. They are pretty much the same every year and are rolled up in the zippered plastic bag. Whether or not the zippered tote bag is also covered with shrink wrap or a plastic sleeve of some kind when on sale at the store, I don't know.

1) Click on the photo over the caption that says "Rte66 Album 1" (you can't read all of it, just Rte66 something) to get into the album,

2) then click on the first photo again to get the larger sized photo,

3) then click "next" to see the others at the regular larger size (as opposed to thumbnail-size).

http://photos.yahoo.com/jwr1476@flash.net

Hope this helps clear it up a little bit for you.

[RTE66's jwr1476@flash.net's photos] [RTE66's jwr1476@flash.net's photos] [RTE66's jwr1476@flash.net's photos]



From: Jayelles 1/31/2004 4:18 am
To: RTE66 (Rte66) (7 of 413) 1716.7 in reply to 1716.6

"I'm trying to verify the package wasn't sealed up like the typical shrink wrap bag rather it had some type of resealable closure. Also if it was made of a material that would have been good to lift fingerprints off of."

I bought a pack of these last year during a trip to New York. This is how they come. The zip is secured to a little loop at the 'closed' end by a tag. The clear plastic zipped bag is the outermost wrapping.

Bloomingdales have piles and piles of Bloomies in their childrenswear department. They are dotted about all over the place and at the paypoints too.



From: Koldkase2 1/31/2004 8:28 pm
To: Jayelles (9 of 413) 1716.9 in reply to 1716.7

"Jayelles, you said:
"I bought a pack of these last year during a trip to New York. This is how they come. The zip is secured to a little loop at the 'closed' end by a tag. The clear plastic zipped bag is the outermost wrapping."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OH, Jayelles, do you realize what this means?

I know what you are describing: the "loop" which secures the zipper so that the package cannot be opened without cutting the plastic loop/tag. I am assuming the "loop" is plastic, as I have seen other zippers on store merchandise secured this way. It usually also has a tag attached, either a product company tag or price or something.

These little plastic loops are very hard to break without cutting them. One must use scissors OR A KNIFE to do so without using great strength.

So what this means is that JonBenet could NOT have opened that package herself, as Patsy said she did.

This means that someone ELSE opened that package. Perhaps someone using a SWISS ARMY KNIFE? Perhaps someone needing a pair of WEDNESDAY PANTIES?

And once again, Patsy is caught in a lie regarding the murder of her daughter. Give me one good reason a mother would like to those investigating the murder of her child unless she did not want them to have the truth.

CHAIN OF EVENTS 2006


[jameson's Webbsleuths]2006-06-01: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.org)
"Mysterious Panties Part THREE"


70.18.210.203
unregistered user
06-01-06, 09:03 AM (EST)

13. "RE: wiped and changed?"
In response to message #11

"Little 45-pound six-year-olds do NOT wear size 12/14 underwear -- NOT FOR ANY REASON!"

I would ask this question of all assembled: if there is no meaningful difference between a pair of underwear of girl's size six and a girl's size 12, why do manufacturers bother selling that distinction? Why were the Bloomie's not sold in sizes small, medium, and large, or even one size fits all, with no limited numerical sizing that would have put a consumer off of buying a set which some are saying would have fit? If the set intended for JonBenet's cousin fit JonBenet comfortably, would the cousin, at size 12, have been able to fit into JonBenet's size six underwear with at most a slightly tight fit? If we are to believe the "panty size was not significant" theorists, then this should have been true.

Tangential questions:

If JonBenet liked the underwear so much, and we do know she accompanied Patsy to New York where they were bought, why did Patsy not buy JonBenet her own set at that time?

If JonBenet liked the underwear so much, why did she wait a whole month to wear them? The underwear were bought in New York in November. What small child waits a month, willingly, to use something they not only like, but took away from someone else?


[Forums For Justice at www.forumsforjustice.org]2006-08-07: Forums For Justice
on thread titled, "12-14 Bloomies "modelled"


August 7, 2006, 3:12 pm, Mon Aug 7 15:12:13 CDT 2006
Jayelles
Alert Viewer in Scotland
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 3,393

12-14 Bloomies "modelled"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK I apologise in advance for my shoddy workmanship and poor photography. My model collapsed a little when I moved it - a shoulder and one of the legs. I left it over the weekend to dry and this evening I carefully padded it out so that the measurements were accurate. It's a bit lumpier than a human model would be, but the measurements are correct and that is the main thing.

My Tootsie's measurements are as follows:-

Height 47 inches (same as Jonbenet)
Weight 46 lbs (1lb heavier than Jonbenet)
Chest - 22 inches
Waist - 20 inches
Hips - 23 inches
Thigh - 13 inches

NOTE: The names of the files all end in the word "resized" - that has nothing to do with the model but refers to the photographs. I resized the photos to post them here.


[Photos from Jayelle's experiment on www.forumforjustice.org showing size 4-6 compared to size 12-14 Bloomingdale bloomies][Photos from Jayelle's experiment on www.forumforjustice.org showing size 4-6 compared to size 12-14 Bloomingdale bloomies][Photos from Jayelle's experiment on www.forumforjustice.org showing size 4-6 compared to size 12-14 Bloomingdale bloomies]
08/07/2006 FFJ Thread "12-14 Bloomies "modelled" Jayelles experiment with oversized bloomies
[Photos from Jayelle's experiment on www.forumforjustice.org showing size 4-6 compared to size 12-14 Bloomingdale bloomies]
Bloomingdale Bloomies Size 4-6 Back View
[Photos from Jayelle's experiment on www.forumforjustice.org showing size 4-6 compared to size 12-14 Bloomingdale bloomies]
Bloomingdale Bloomies Size 4-6 Front View
[Photos from Jayelle's experiment on www.forumforjustice.org showing size 4-6 compared to size 12-14 Bloomingdale bloomies]
Bloomingdale Bloomies Size 4-6 Side View
[Photos from Jayelle's experiment on www.forumforjustice.org showing size 4-6 compared to size 12-14 Bloomingdale bloomies]
Bloomingdale Bloomies Size 12-14 Back View
[Photos from Jayelle's experiment on www.forumforjustice.org showing size 4-6 compared to size 12-14 Bloomingdale bloomies]
Bloomingdale Bloomies Size 12-14 Front View
[Photos from Jayelle's experiment on www.forumforjustice.org showing size 4-6 compared to size 12-14 Bloomingdale bloomies]
Bloomingdale Bloomies Size 12-14 Side View

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