s-evidence-window-grate.htm


	A Personal view of the Internet Subculture Surrounding the JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

This web page is part of a series covering found materials regarding individuals, items or events that apparently became part of what is commonly known as the vortex of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case Christmas night 1996. The webmaster of this site claims no inside official Boulder police information as to who has been interviewed, investigated, the outcome or what information is actually considered official evidence. These pages outline found material which can include but not limited to materials found in books, articles, the Internet, transcripts, depositions, legal documents, Internet discussion forums, graphics or photos, media reports, TV/Radio shows about the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. Found materials are here for historical archive purposes. (www.acandyrose.com - acandyrose@aol.com)

This webpage series is for historical archive and educational purposes on found materials

Evidence - Window, Grate, Suitcase

John Ramsey climbed in basement window twice maybe three times

ITEMS REMOVED:

BPD Search Warrant 12/26/1996 - Window grate (9GRV)
BPD Search Warrant 12/26/1996 - One blue suitcase (21PP)
BPD Search Warrant 12/26/1996 - Broken window (104KKY)
BPD Search Warrant 12/26/1996 - Piece of broken window (5KKY)
BPD Search Warrant 12/26/1996 - Piece of broken window (6KKY)
BPD Search Warrant 12/26/1996 - Piece of broken window (7KKY)
BPD Search Warrant 12/26/1996 - Piece of broken window (8KKY)

CHAIN OF EVENTS 1997

1997-04-30: John Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo

John Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo
Also present, Pat Burke, Bryan Morgan, Pete Hoffstrom, Jon Foster
April 30, 1997 - Boulder, Colorado
http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

JR: Ah, well, I remember they took me aside, and we sat in John Andrew’s room which is the one next to JonBenet’s and she went through what I should do when we talked to the caller and I must insist that I talk to JonBenet and that we need until 5 o’clock to raise the money. I’d actually called my (inaudible) and arranged for the money. Ah, and I think we had by that time started to wonder if one of the housekeepers might be involved. And there was some activity around that direction. We waited until past 11 and then we, and then I think we were in the living room and Linda said why don’t you take someone and look through the house and see if there’s anything you notice that’s unusual. And Fleet and I, Fleet was standing there and said he’d go with me. And we went down to the basement, went into the train room, which is, you know, the train set is, and that’s really the only window that’s, would let in entrance into the basement. And actually I’d gone down there earlier that morning, into that room, and the window was broken, but I didn’t see any glass around, so I assumed it was broken last summer. I used that window to get into the house when (inaudible) I didn’t have a key. But the window was open, about an eighth of an inch, and just kind latched it. So I went back down with Fleet, we looked around for some glass again, still didn’t see any glass. And I told him that I thought that the break came from when I did that last summer and then, then I went from there into the cellar. Pull on the door, it was latched. I reach up and unlatched it, and then I saw the white blanket, (inaudible).

ST: Well, let me follow up on this John. John I’m very sensitive to how tough this is, and you’ll appreciate that we need to get through this. On that trip to the basement, shortly after 1 p.m. on the 26th, Fleet showed you the window, the broken basement window.
JR: No, I, I think was the first one to enter the room.
ST: OK, but . . .
JR: I said, you know, this window’s broken, but I think I broke it last summer. It just hasn’t been fixed. And it was opened, but I closed it earlier and we got down on the floor and looked around for some glass just to be sure that it hadn’t been broken again.
ST: And Fleet had talked about earlier being down there, I think alone at one point, and discovering that window. When you say that you found it earlier that day and latched it, at what time of day was that?
JR: I don’t know. I mean it would have been probably, probably before 10 o’clock.
ST: Was that prior to Fleet’s first trip down?
JR: I didn’t know he was in the basement. I didn’t know that. I mean other than that trip with me.
ST: And on the trip that you latched the window, were you alone when you went down and latched the window?
JR: Yep.
ST: And on this, what I’m assuming is only your second trip to the basement on the 26th with Fleet, how much time did you spend in the basement before moving to the cellar room door?
JR: Not very much time. A minute maybe, or less, probably less than that.

ST: And on the morning of the 26th, you made one trip alone to the basement, and it was only on the second trip with Fleet that you, then shortly thereafter that you went to this basement room?
JR: Right.
ST: OK. When you had previously broken that basement window to gain entry to the home when you had been locked out, can you approximate what month that was?
JR: Well, I think it was last summer. Because Patsy was up at Lake (inaudible) all summer, and it would have been July or August probably, somewhere in that time frame.
ST: Did you remove that grate and get down into the window well?
JR: Uh-huh.
ST: And what did you use to break the pane?
JR: Ah, I don’t remember. Might have been my foot, I don’t know.
ST: OK. You reach in, I’m assuming, unlatched it and gain entry through that small window.
JR: Yeah.
ST: Did you then replace the grate onto that window well?
JR: Oh I probably would have done it that night. I’m sure I didn’t the next morning or, you know, or thereafter.
ST: Did you remove that whole grate off onto the, off the well, to jump down there and get in?
JR: Ah, probably. I don’t remember.
ST: Is there any reason that window went unrepaired?
JR: No. I mean it’s, Patsy usually took care of those things, and I just rarely went to the basement, so it just, I guess, got overlooked. Although she did think that she asked the cleaning lady’s husband to fix it over Thanksgiving when they were doing some repair work there, but I don’t know if that’s ever been confirmed whether he fixed it or not.
ST: And you mentioned when you went down in the morning, the 26th, and it was unlatched, did that strike you as odd or did you bring that to anybody’s attention?
JR: I, I don’t know. I mean when I was, I think, yeah, I think it probably struck me as a little odd, but it wasn’t, I mean sometimes that window would be open because the basement got hot, or one of those windows would be opened. So it wasn’t . . .
ST: Particularly unusual?
JR: It was dramatically out of the ordinary, but, that is, I thought about it.

JR: I mean, based on what I understand, there was a practice not and all of that. Somebody obviously spent some time there, and I guess found their way around the house the same time, but my, I mean my theory is that someone came in through the basement window. Because it was a new Samsonite suitcase also sitting right under the window, and you would have had to, you could have gotten into the house without that, but you couldn’t have gotten out that window without something to step on. And to even have known those windows were there, wouldn’t have been obvious to somebody who just was walking by. But . . .

ST: You talking about the window in the back, was not obvious?
JR: Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, it’s not obvious, but that is to me because that is the way to get into the house, and we know that the grate could be pulled off and the windows were not painted shut and, you know, it’s just I guess that’s why we never gave it much thought about . . .
??: And we asked a couple of times that that grates kind of out of the way, and you have to, I wouldn’t have known it was there. I mean, you can’t see from the back alleyway, you can’t see from the front. It’s out of the ordinary, out of the way picture, excuse me, out of the way window.

TT: OK. And let’s also hop back to the grate for just a second, cause I picked the grate up, it’s really heavy, I mean fairly heavy. Picked it up, moved it out of the way, kind of hopped down, I mean first peaked into that window, hopped down into that window well, you ended up, have to kick the window, break the window somehow, reach in and unlatch it. How far of a drop is it, or is it difficult I should say, to drop from the window well.
JR: No.
TT: It seem like it’s, for me I think it’s probably . . .
JR: That high.
BM: Do you want an estimate of that?
TT: Certainly.
JR: it’s probably, I don’t know, four feel maybe, five feet.
TT: OK. But on the outside you’ve got that kind of skinny narrow window well. Did you have an difficulty sliding into that or sliding down the wall?
JR: Yeah, well, as I recall, I did it at night and I had a suit on, and I took my suit off and did it in my underwear. But, it’s not easy, I mean you can get in that way, you get dirty, but.
TT: It’s not a graceful way to get in.
JR: No, no.
TT: It’s difficult because of the angles.
JR: Right.
TT: All right.
ST: Tom, let me just ask John this. Do you sit down and slide through, buttocks first if you will, through a window like that or, do you recall how you went through the actual window, John?
JR: I don’t I mean, I don’t remember. Seems like, I mean, I don’t remember, but I think I would probably gone in feet first.
ST: Feet first, backwards?
JR: Yeah.
ST: And when you went through in your underwear, were you wearing shoes or?
JR: I still had my shoes on, yeah.
ST: And were those with a suit, were they business shoes.
JR: They were probably, probably those shoes.
St: OK. And what are those shoes?
JR: Business shoes.
ST: And for the record, are those, brown lace-up, men’s business
JR: Oxford, not these shoes, but they are shoes that I wear with a suit, just a pair of business shoes, dress shoes.
TT: John, when you went down in the basement the first time and found the broken window, it was unlock, you latched it, did you notice that the window, excuse me, if you notice if the room was overly cold or anything like that?
JR: No, it wasn’t. I didn’t notice that it was.

1997-04-30: Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo

Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo
Also present, Pat Burke, Bryan Morgan, Pete Hoffstrom, Jon Foster
April 30, 1997 - Boulder, Colorado
http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1997BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

TT: Okay. Do you remember if John ever went down to the basement to check any of the windows down there before the police arrived?
PR: You know I, you’re just going to ask him I don’t . . .
TT: Okay.

TT: When did John break that window in the basement?
PR: He, I don’t know exactly when he did it, but I think it was last summer sometime when we, the kids and I were at the lake.
TT: In Charlevoix.
PR: In Charlevoix and he told me to come back from out of town or whatever and he didn’t have a key and the only way he could get in was to break the window.
TT: Okay.
PR: The little um, like door, little window to the basement there.
TT: He had to life the grate out of the way to, to get in there.
PR: Yeah, that’s the one, um hum.
TT: Okay. Any reason why that one wasn’t replaced or the pane wasn’t fixed or anything?
PR: No, I don’t know whether I fixed it or didn’t fix it. I can’t remember even trying to remember that, um, I remember when I got back, uh, in the fall, you know . . .
TT: Um hum.
PR: . . .uh, went down there and cleaned up all the glass.
TT: Okay.
PR: I mean I cleaned that thoroughly and I asked Linda to go behind me and vacuum. I mean I picked up every chunk, I mean, because the kids played down there in that back area back there.
TT: Um hum.
PR: And I mean I scoured that place when, cause they were always down there. Burke particularly and the boys would go down there and play with cars and things and uh, there was just a ton of glass everywhere.
TT: Okay.
PR: And I cleaned all that up and then she, she vacuumed a couple of times down there.
TT: To get all the glass.
PR: In the fall yeah cause it was just little, you know, pieces, big pieces, everything.
TT: Do you ever recall getting that window replaced?
PR: Yeah, uh, I can’t remember. I just can’t remember whether I got it replaced or not.

PR: And uh, they also washed the windows, so they may be able to recall whether that window, and he was going to do some odd jobs.
TT: Mervin was?
PR: Uh huh.
TT: Okay.
PR: Uh, fix some shelves in the playroom and some uh, closet doors that had come off their track and some stuff like that.
TT: Um hum.
PR: And so I would, it seems to me like she and I talked about that window or did, somehow I vaguely remember that if it would have gotten fixed he very likely would be the one to fix it. And at any rate they were going to wash all the windows, so they would have known……
TT: Whether it was fixed or not?
PR: Yeah.

ST: And I have spoken with Linda, and she’s identified this suitcase as belonging to, well not necessarily belonging to, but a suitcase that she has used and that John Andrew has used, and that John Andrew likely had left at your house.
PR: Right.
ST: Do you recognize that blue suitcase?
PR: Yes.
ST: OK. Can you tell me anything about it?
PR: Well, just it’s old hard Samsonite or whatever, you know.
ST: And what this something that John Andrew let at the 15th Street home while he went to school at CU?
PR: Yeah, yeah, that’s to my recollection. Yeah, he moved out here with a bunch of stuff and then he left a lot of stuff t our house that he didn’t want to take to the dorm.
ST: Do you know where he kept that in your home, or where you last saw that?
PR: No, I don’t remember where I last saw it.
ST: OK.
PR: He, I don’t know.
ST: Where would John Andrew store his other items and affects?
PR: Some of the things are in his room I think, in the closet, and I think he put a bunch of stuff down in the basement. A computer, he had a computer and a printer, and I think that might have been in the basement too. It’s pretty big, I think it was in the basement.
ST: Do you know what room in the basement he would have, his stuff was stored in? Was it in the train room, or the…
PR: It wasn’t, I don’t know now, there was so much stuff down there. I can, it could have been anywhere.

1997-09-11: Ramseys Open To The Press (Full article here)

Ramseys open up to press
By CLAY EVANS
Camera Staff Writer
Thursday, September 11, 1997

The basement

Often described as "unfinished," the basement where JonBenet's body was found Dec. 26 is carpeted and the walls were repainted white not long before the girl's murder. The entire area has a claustrophobic feel, with low ceilings, small rooms and many close walls. However, it is well lit with bare bulbs, and clean, except for some water stains on the white walls.

The staircase from the main floor leads down to the right (east) and a small, gray-carpeted landing. A few more steps lead to the basement floor.

Immediately left of the staircase is a small bathroom with a toilet and sink. According to Ramsey family representatives, the commode was disassembled by investigators and left in pieces when the house was turned over the family following the initial, eight-day investigation.

A narrow, carpeted hallway leads west from the bathroom past a small cubicle containing a washer and dryer. On the other side of the hall is a large room the family called "the train room," where the children once played with a train set and other toys.

A similar-sized empty room lies at the end of the hallway. A window at the west end of the room looks out into a window well covered by a removable metal grate. Although often reported as small, the window appears large enough for a full-grown man or woman to crawl through.

(In police photographs of the crime scene that appeared in a tabloid newspaper, a blue suitcase rests beneath the window. When the house was turned over to the family, the suitcase was no longer there, family representatives said. Police also apparently removed a broken window pane - John Ramsey reportedly told investigators he had broken it in the summer of 1996 when he returned from a business trip and didn't have a key.)

Immediately adjacent to the bathroom on the east wall is a small room containing water heaters and other utility devices.

Next to the utility space, at the southeast corner of the basement, is the unfinished, windowless room where JonBenet's body was found behind a closed door. The room is dank and bunker-like, with water stained cement walls and a cement floor. Although some have referred to the room as a "wine cellar," the room appeared somewhat unused. The family used the room to store such things as Christmas decorations.

John Ramsey and his friend Fleet White found the girl's body wrapped in a blanket less than five feet inside the door, lying next to a small, gray safe embedded in the cement floor.

Family representatives said the Ramseys found the safe when they bought the home, but never had the combination. They said police investigators drilled the safe to open it, but did not reveal what contents - if any - they discovered.

CHAIN OF EVENTS 1998

1998-06-23: John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane
(Screen Capture from "CBS 48 Hours Investigates - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane
Present also were Bryan Morgan, PI David Williams
June 23, 24, 25, 1998 - Boulder, Colorado

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1998BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Window and Window Grate)

0040
20 JOHN RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE). They were leaving
21 little clues to analyze this. I think entry was
22 gained through the basement window.
23 LOU SMIT: Why do you think that?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Because the window was cracked
25 open. There was this large suitcase under it, as

0041
1 if it was used to climb out. That suitcase didn't
2 belong there. I think the person was in the house,
3 if not when we got home, shortly after. I think
4 she was killed that night, versus in the morning.

(SNIP)

0148
20 LOU SMIT: How many phones do you have in
21 the house?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Well we had several. Some of
23 them didn't work. We had one in the solarium, we
24 had one in the kitchen, one back here.
25 LOU SMIT: All extensions?

0149
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm. In terms of the number
2 of phone lines, I think we had two. I had two. I
3 think there was one that came out of here for the
4 computer modem. It wasn't part of the rest of the
5 house system. There is one here in the study.
6 There's one in the basement
7 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE)?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: There's one jack here but it
9 didn't work. I think there was phone in Patsy's
10 room. But that was it.
11 LOU SMIT: But just two lines basically other
12 than the modem line, or does that make it three?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: No. Just a modem line and three
14 phone lines.
15 LOU SMIT: And what was your phone number at
16 that time, if you remember?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: I (INAUDIBLE).
18 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE) that's fine.
19 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember.

(SNIP)

0151
18 LOU SMIT: Okay. Let's back up just a little
19 bit?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Okay.
21 LOU SMIT: You said that you went through
22 the house at another period of time?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
24 LOU SMIT: I remember in your report. Did you
25 ever go down to the basement?

0152
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm. I went.
2 LOU SMIT: Who was with you at that time?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: I was by myself. I was. I had
4 gone down the basement. I went in the --
5 LOU SMIT: You're going to have to back up a
6 little so that the camera (INAUDIBLE)?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: I came down the stairs. I went
8 in this room here. This door was kind of blocked.
9 We had a bunch of junk down here and there was a
10 chair that was in front of the door. Some old
11 things. I moved the chair, went into this room,
12 went back in here. This window was open, maybe
13 that far.
14 LOU SMIT: Okay. You said -- or how far
15 were
16 you? An inch?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: An inch, maybe, or less. It
18 was cracked open.
19 LOU SMIT: Which window?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it was the little one.
21 There's three windows across here, as I recall. I
22 think it was the middle one. It was that was
23 broken. There was pane class broken out of it,
24 which I attributed to breaking myself.
25 LOU SMIT: People go into that basement?

0153
1 JOHN RAMSEY: But it was open and there
2 was
3 a suitcase under it. This hard Samsonite suitcase.
4 LOU SMIT: Describe how the suitcase was
5 positioned?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: It was against the wall. I think
7 the handle was on top. It was directly under the
8 window, as I recall. And I closed the window, I
9 don't know why, but I closed it. And then --
10 LOU SMIT: When you closed it, did you lock
11 it or close it?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: I latched it. There's a little
13 latch on it.
14 LOU SMIT: And you're sure of that?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty sure, yeah. Yeah, I am
16 sure. I don't think I looked anywhere else. I
17 think at that point I still was trying to figure
18 out how they'd get in the house.
19 LOU SMIT: Well wouldn't that trigger your
20 (INAUDIBLE).
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Yeah.
22 LOU SMIT: Did you tell anybody about that?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't really remember. I mean,
24 part of what is going on you're in such a state of
25 disbelief this can even happen. And the, you know,

0154
1 the window had been broken out. And you say hah,
2 that's it. But it was a window that I had used to
3 get into the house before. It was cracked and open
4 a little bit. It wasn't terribly unusual for me.
5 Sometimes it would get opened to let cool air in
6 because that basement could get real hot in
7 winter. So it was like, you know, after I thought
8 about it, I thought it was more of an alarming
9 situation how it struck me at the time. It was
10 still sort of explainable to me that it could have
11 been left open.
12 And the suitcase was unusual. That shouldn't have
13 been there. I took that suitcase downstairs, I
14 remember. But I sure wouldn't have taken it all
15 the way back there and put it against the window.
16 LOU SMIT: Okay. Let's talk about suitcases a
17 little bit as long as your talking about it now.
18 It was right up against the wall?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
20 LOU SMIT: And you said you had taken that
21 down. When did you?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Months before, probably, months
23 before, two months before. It was one of these big
24 Samsonite suitcases that, I don't know, the kids
25 used it to bring some clothes home, the older

0155
1 kids. Sometimes it ended up at our house. I don't
2 think it was our suitcase. It seemed to belong to
3 Cindy Johnson, my ex-wife.
4 But it was here for a while. It was up in the
5 laundry room. I remember taking it downstairs to
6 clean up. And I think I just kind of sat it in
7 this room here.
8 LOU SMIT: That would be in that hall?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Just in the landing in the hall
10 area.
11 LOU SMIT: Okay.
12 JOHN RAMSEY: But I'm 99.9 percent taken I
13 wouldn't have taken it all the way back and set it
14 against that wall.
15 LOU SMIT: When you noticed it, about what
16 time was that? That's kind of important. In terms
17 of time now.
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Well it would have been probably
19 before nine o'clock, I would say. It would have
20 been that time period: seven to nine. Cause I was
21 still, you know amidst all this other stuff,
22 trying to figure out what's going on here? How did
23 they get in the house? I know this is before Linda
24 told us to go through the house. It was well
25 before.

(SNIP)

0172
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, there were some boxes
3 and there was like a barstool kind of thing
4 sitting there. It wasn't obvious to me that
5 anybody had gone through because I had to move the
6 chair to get in, which I did. And then I came back
7 in here and I noticed the window was broken, which
8 fits from when I did it. But the window was open
9 slightly.
10 MIKE KANE: It might have had a little
11 latch or something?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: Just this little latch. But
13 what I did specifically notice was the suitcase
14 sitting under the window. That was not -- that
15 didn't fit. I could explain why the window was
16 broken or why it might have been partly open, but
17 the suitcase just kind of jumped out at me.
18 MIKE KANE: And you said that you had
19 previously taken that down? I think you said you
20 took it down to the laundry room. Are you talking
21 about the second floor laundry room?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: No. I think it had been up
23 here for a while. The kids had gone in; they
24 unpacked or whatever. Maybe it was in this room.
25 It was somewhere up in this area.

0173
1 MIKE KANE: Okay. I thought you meant the
2 laundry area?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: No, no, the second floor.
4 Because I took it down to the basement, but I just
5 kind of sat it in this room. We weren't terribly
6 neat, so putting stuff away was kind of a
7 progression. So it got that far. But I absolutely
8 did not move that.
9 MIKE KANE: Now you said that that window
10 was open a bit, but that sometimes that had been
11 open before to let air --
12 JOHN RAMSEY: It was open for ventilation.
13 It was wide open, because with the heat all
14 winter, that room would really get hot. So if the
15 kids were down there and playing, you had to open
16 the window.
17 MIKE KANE: And that was a room where the kids
18 played in a lot with the train?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: The train was there. Burke
20 used to play with that. They didn't play there a
21 lot. Burke did, from time to time. But not so
22 much JonBenet. That was Burke's train room.

(SNIP)

0214
15 LOU SMIT: Sure. I'd like to talk about
16 the window rail and the broken window that's at
17 the scene. Do you have any other areas you'd like
18 to (INAUDIBLE)? The reason that I want to talk
19 about that is, in your mind there could be a
20 potential point that (INAUDIBLE)? You're not sure
21 that we ran across that with you. Now let's just
22 talk about that a little bit.
23 You say that earlier you had gone in that same
24 window. Now, can you remember when this was or the
25 circumstances surrounding doing that?

0215
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I can't remember
2 exactly when it was. I've done it maybe twice,
3 maybe three times during the period of time we
4 owned the house. It was a way that I could get in
5 the house if we didn't have a key that was least
6 expensive to repair. It was one single pane of
7 non-insulated glass and.
8 I think that was done one summer I came back late
9 in the evening. Patsy and the kids were delayed,
10 and for some reason I didn't have a key. I don't
11 know why. But usually if I don't drive my car I
12 take a cab or something to the airport and back,
13 and I don't have a key and the house keys are on
14 the key ring.
15 But that was the time, it was in the summer I had
16 come back from a business trip. I think I had a
17 suit on. It was late. It was like about 11:30 at
18 night. It was dark. It was (INAUDIBLE) Amazingly I
19 took the grill off. I think I probably kicked the
20 window with my foot and then reached in and
21 unlatched the window.
22 LOU SMIT: Were you alone at that time?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
24 LOU SMIT: First of all, now when you
25 drove home, did you drive home when you got in

0216
1 that late that night?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recall specifically.
3 But I think I took (INAUDIBLE) and it dropped me
4 off.
5 LOU SMIT: And then they dropped you off
6 there at the house.
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
8 LOU SMIT: So you don't have a garage
9 door opener at that time, is that what you're
10 saying?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
12 LOU SMIT: Do you normally have a garage
13 opener?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: In my car. See I have a
15 garage opener I can get in the house because we
16 never lock the door in the garage that goes in the
17 house. And that was 98 percent of the time how I
18 got in the house.
19 LOU SMIT: Where would (INAUDIBLE)?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably the garage, in the
21 garage through that door. And I think I had given
22 my key to John Andrew or somebody. I didn't have
23 it. Very rarely that I use the key to unlock the
24 door into my house because I've always had a
25 garage --

0217
1 LOU SMIT: You mean it's normal in the car?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
3 LOU SMIT: Okay. And at that time of night I
4 assume you didn't want to call a locksmith for
5 that?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I didn't have any way
7 to call. (INAUDIBLE) I remember it was late. I
8 could go to my neighbors.
9 LOU SMIT: And you say the family was gone?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
11 LOU SMIT: And did you ever keys like to the
12 neighbors or anything?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: Well The Barnhills had a key.
14 I don't know if know if I remember that at the
15 time. It was late. I'm sure I wouldn't have gone
16 over anyway. But I always wished I would have done
17 is bury one somewhere under a rock or something.
18 One time we had one under a statute. But could
19 also be used by somebody (INAUDIBLE) So we moved
20 it.

(SNIP)

218
20 LOU SMIT: Well, I know (INAUDIBLE) I'll
21 show it to you now and then I'll tell you what it
22 is. This here photograph is also of that window
23 area. But these were taken somewhat later. And
24 these are just crime scene photographs also.
25 Now these are photographs 418, 419, 420, 421,

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Window and Window Grate)

0219
1 422,423, 424 and 425. I'm going to show you these
2 and see if, first of all, can you explain to me
3 how you got into that window, while I'm showing
4 (INAUDIBLE)?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Well you can just lift the
6 grate out and slide it out, lay it on the ground
7 and then jump down into the well.
8 LOU SMIT: And when you slide it out, what
9 do you mean by sliding it out?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I think there was a
11 couple of supports on the side (INAUDIBLE) went
12 here and just lift that up. I didn't lift it up.
13 LOU SMIT: Right, and then straight down.
14 JOHN RAMSEY: I think I probably lifted it
15 up and just pulled it away from the hole.
16 LOU SMIT: And then did you have any trouble
17 getting in?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
19 LOU SMIT: And how much do you weigh? Right
20 about then?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably about what I do now:
22 195.
23 LOU SMIT: And you're how tall?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Five ten, nine and a half.
25 LOU SMIT: And you say that you went down

0220
1 in there and you had taken your clothing off?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: I had my suit on, so I took
3 my suit coat off and my pants off so I wouldn't
4 (INAUDIBLE). I might have taken my shirt off. But
5 it's not difficult to get in. it would be
6 difficult to get out; you needed something to step
7 on. But basically you just open the window and
8 just let yourself drop down on the ground.
9 LOU SMIT: Have you ever gotten out that
10 way?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: No. I've (INAUDIBLE) the house.
12 LOU SMIT: Do you know anyone that has?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't.
14 LOU SMIT: So you say you just went down into
15 the window well where you kicked out the window.
16 Then what did you have to do? What's your next
17 step?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Then you had reach in to
19 unlatch the window, and if it's stuck, you just
20 pop it open. I mean, I don't remember if I slid in
21 face forward or a turned around. Probably turned
22 around, turn around backwards and put your needs
23 on the ledge here and let your feet in and then
24 just drop down. That's probably how I would have
25 done it?

0221
1 LOU SMIT: Now you say that the time that
2 you went into this window, that was nighttime?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
4 LOU SMIT: And you say it was about 11:30 at
5 night? Obviously it would be dark at that time?
6 What's your recollection of the difficulty of
7 getting into the house then?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I guess I remember the
9 unknown harm is when you drop the last foot or two
10 in the basement. Because that basement room is
11 always kind of a mess. You're not quite sure what
12 you're going to land in.
13 Once I was in the basement I could find my way to
14 the door. The light switch is over by the door. So
15 you got to be careful because there's a lot of
16 junk in there.
17 LOU SMIT: But you could make your way
18 around? Would you be able to even see?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I remember being able
20 to see real well, I think. Cause there's not
21 (INAUDIBLE) light in that basement room. So unless
22 there was light left on or something in one of the
23 rooms you wouldn't have been --
24 LOU SMIT: So even if (INAUDIBLE) you know
25 where it was? Where's the light switch at if you

0222
1 look at the diagram?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Right here.
3 LOU SMIT: So you're pointing just to the
4 end of the train room table there?

(SNIP)

0224
22 LOU SMIT: Great. Great. But again, that
23 is the window well. And I'm going to show you some
24 photographs of the window well. And again those
25 are photographs number 418 through 425.

0225

1 MIKE KANE: Can I ask a quick question of
2 John?
3 LOU SMIT: Sure, go ahead.
4 MIKE KANE: You said that this was in the
5 summer. Can you be more specific (INAUDIBLE). You
6 said that Patsy probably got delayed?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I don't remember exactly.
8 I'm just guessing.
9 MIKE KANE: When did she usually go up to --
10 JOHN RAMSEY: They went up usually in the
11 first week of June then came back in the last week
12 of August. So it would have been in that
13 timeframe.
14 MIKE KANE: And she always (INAUDIBLE)?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
16 LOU SMIT: I'll start off first with these.
17 These are photographs that were taken on the 30th
18 of December. And this is a series of photographs,
19 like I mentioned 418 through 425.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: I was really (INAUDIBLE) the
21 ivy is under the grate.
22 LOU SMIT: And what does that signify to
23 you?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: That it had been moved fairly
25 recently. I would have expected that the ivy to be

0226
1 dead. It was (INAUDIBLE) like that
2 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE) because we had seen
3 that also. And I don't want to mislead you.
4 Because, obviously all of us have seen that. And
5 at first we didn't know exactly why that was. But
6 we think a perhaps an officer may have moved that
7 grate. So I just wanted you to know that. Because
8 it's very easy to make the conclusion that it was
9 done.
10 But we have had some real discussion on this and
11 did find out that an officer had moved that grate.
12 I usually don't tell you whether we know about
13 that. But otherwise that's misleading.
14 But that's the same grate in the same area then?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
16 LOU SMIT: Now you replaced that grate
17 completely with a new grate, is that correct?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I think it was replaced,
19 yeah.
20 LOU SMIT: A question I'm dying to ask, does
21 anybody have any photos before the officer thinks
22 he moved the grate?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
24 DAVID WILLIAMS: We can put an end to this
25 if the officer had any recollection.

0227
1 LOU SMIT: That's something that we're still
2 looking into.
3 JOHN RAMSEY: Can we find out what it is that
4 (INAUDIBLE) that the dirt and dust had been
5 disturbed?
6 LOU SMIT: If that's your observation, then
7 it's good.
8 JOHN RAMSEY: When I was there it was July,
9 that was six months earlier.
10 LOU SMIT: I would like to just add something
11 though before we move too much further. I would
12 like to do that. (INAUDIBLE) the wind was very
13 strong in that area. Is It possible that the wind
14 could have done this? That it could have blown
15 into the --
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Disturb the --
17 LOU SMIT: Right.
18 JOHN RAMSEY: It would have blown a lot of
19 dust in there. (INAUDIBLE) to clean it off. I
20 mean, there was a nasty window well with spider
21 wells. It was just dirty.
22 LOU SMIT: And for your information also,
23 there is some spider webs also. I just want to
24 make sure that you're not misled.
25 JOHN RAMSEY: I appreciate it. I mean these

0228
1 spots look clean; cleaner than the rest. That's
2 glass there. A piece of glass there. I don't know
3 why -- I mean if there's enough wind, it kinds of
4 kicks things up. I don't know why this would have
5 been cleaner than the next two. I wouldn't have
6 been down there for six months. I would have
7 expected a more uniform (INAUDIBLE).
8 That's kind of an odd state to be in too.
9 LOU SMIT: Do you remember anything
10 (INAUDIBLE)?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, maybe the top corner
12 where that little circle thing is.
13 LOU SMIT: And you're sure the last time
14 that you were in there was in the summer?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. I'm sure.
16 LOU SMIT: Any questions you'd like to?
17 MIKE KANE: Well I have a lot of questions
18 about the things that we've covered. But I just
19 didn't want interrupt you.

(SNIP)

0238
18 LOU SMIT: I just have one more window.
19 MIKE KANE: I mean, I have other areas.
20 LOU SMIT: What I'm going to show is
21 photograph number 252. In fact, I'll maybe hold it
22 up for the camera, and I'll ask Mr. Ramsey, what
23 does that show?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Well it shows the window
25 open and the suitcase. But the suitcase, when I

0239
1 first saw it, the suitcase was flat up against the
2 wall and for some reason I felt like that window
3 opened to the other side.
4 LOU SMIT: Any other observations that you
5 (INAUDIBLE)?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. I realize it
7 looks like just kind of marks on the wall, but I
8 can't --
9 LOU SMIT: On the diagram, John, can you
10 show us where that is?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: We're here.
12 LOU SMIT: Now is that the area that you
13 observed earlier on the 26th and then a little bit
14 later with Fleet White?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
16 LOU SMIT: Does that look similar to that?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Except for when I was there
18 the suitcase was flat up against the wall.
19 MIKE KANE: When you say flat up against the
20 wall, how do you mean?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: It was standing up like this,
22 only it the light surface was against the wall.
23 LOU SMIT: You said you moved it? Did you
24 mention that?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: I moved it a bit just to see

0240
1 if there was glass. It's funny how you remember
2 things. I swear that window opened from the other
3 side. I guess other than that, I can't see
4 anything.
5 LOU SMIT: Now is this the suitcase you
6 described as John Andrew's suitcase?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Well it was -- I mean, it
8 looks like it. It looks a little darker but I
9 think it's cause the room is darker. It was like a
10 hard case, a Samsonite suitcase that I think, I
11 think, John Andrew when he came to college, he
12 brought all his stuff out and left it at our
13 house.
14 LOU SMIT: Now you said that you picked up
15 pieces of glass.
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
17 LOU SMIT: A few little pieces.
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
19 LOU SMIT: And did you say you put them on
20 the window well or on the suitcase or do you
21 remember?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember for sure.
23 There wasn't enough there for me to be convinced
24 that the window was broken that morning. I was
25 assuming that it had been broken by me and it

0241

1 hadn't really been fixed.

(SNIP)

0745
9 LOU SMIT: How about in the
10 basement?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Not at all unless it
12 was just accidental.
13 LOU SMIT: If you were to go down
14 in that basement at night, would you be able to
15 see your way around down there?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: It would be tough.
17 But no lights on, it would be difficult. And
18 there is always a lot of junk around. You know,
19 it was open, the door here usually the light was
20 on in this hall and if you left the door open,
21 it wasn't a very long stairway, it would have
22 provided some illumination probably in this
23 area. But.
24 LOU SMIT: Where was the light
25 switch for that basement?

0746
1 JOHN RAMSEY: It seems to me it
2 was either against that wall or as you went into
3 the basement. Right now I don't remember for
4 sure. There was a light, I think a light bulb
5 right there. You might have had a little street
6 light in this window at night.
7 LOU SMIT: Where was the street
8 light located at?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Hum, I don't
10 remember. I think there's a telephone pole
11 right in here somewhere.
12 LOU SMIT: In front of the --
13 JOHN RAMSEY: I mean there is one
14 down here maybe. Yeah, they are in front of the
15 house. No, that's not right. The telephone
16 pole is in back of the house. We had a lawn
17 light that was out at the edge of the drive --
18 edge of the sidewalk.
19 LOU SMIT: Was that normally on or
20 off?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it was
22 normally on. It usually was left on all the
23 time.

(SNIP)

1998-06-23: Patsy Ramsey Interview (Thomas Haney, Trip DeMuth)
(Screen Capture from "CBS 48 Hours - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth - Present also were Patrick Burke and Ellis Armistead June 23, 24, 25, 1998 - Boulder, Colorado

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Window and Window Grate)

0411
15 TOM HANEY: 246 now.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Is that the hall
17 from here? No.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: That is a closer picture of the
19 wall.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, is it? Okay. It looks
21 dirty to me, that close up.
22 TOM HANEY: 227 then, you just, you can
23 describe because there is a lot of storage there.
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. Well, this was kind of
25 back where we keep the craft stuff, like in the

0412
1 cabinets here, the glitter and the construction paper
2 and all that kind of stuff, the ribbon.
3 TOM HANEY: Where is that?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: In the basement. Here is the
5 train room. You kind of turn to the right. Here is
6 the kind of view straight in. This is the construction
7 paper and things like that; paint, paint up there.
8 That window is open there.
9 TOM HANEY: Is that unusual?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, it would be unusual.
11 TOM HANEY: When is the last time you were in
12 the basement?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I was down there on
14 Christmas day at the washer and dryer. I was wrapping.
15 TOM HANEY: Was that window open then?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know because I didn't
17 go in there. I don't know if that is what the suitcase
18 is doing there anyway.
19 TOM HANEY: That is in 248.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: When was this taken, do you
21 know, after everybody had gone down there and checked
22 around?
23 TRIP DEMUTH: There is a photo log. I don't
24 know precisely without the photo log when the photos
25 were taken.

0413
1 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks dark.
2 TOM HANEY: 249.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I think that is a little crawl
4 space door.
5 TOM HANEY: Access.
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Access. But I don't remember
7 where that was in the basement.
8 TOM HANEY: You are looking at 252 now, that
9 is just a little closer photo above where -- was it
10 248, and there is, you pointed out the suitcase.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
12 TOM HANEY: Can you tell us anything about
13 that?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, that wasn't one of the
15 suitcases that I normally use. We use the roller ones.
16 I think that is one that John Andrew had brought over
17 from his college stuff, you know, like unpacked and
18 brought the suitcase over to our house, but I didn't
19 think it was in there. I thought it was back in --
20 back there toward the cellar room more, back in the
21 (inaudible).
22 TRIP DEMUTH: Let's pull out a diagram.
23 TOM HANEY: We don't have a basement here.
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, somewhere back like kind
25 of over in here, by the -- where the hot water heater

0414
1 area was is another little area. I thought it was more
2 in here. Unless Linda moved it over here when she put
3 the paint stuff there, I don't know. That looks out of
4 place.
5 TOM HANEY: You are thinking it was last in
6 that area between the wine cellar and the bathroom by
7 the stairs.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Right, that little door there.
9 TOM HANEY: Were there other suitcases or
10 items of John Andrews stored in that area?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Seems like at one time he left
12 a printer there, a printer, a computer printer. I want
13 to say it was down in the corner too like on the
14 counter top there.
15 TOM HANEY: Did you guys kind of give him
16 that particular place to store stuff or --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: No. Just throw it down there
18 with the rest of the junk.
19 TOM HANEY: It could have been anywhere?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. But that does not
21 look -- that doesn't look like where I thought it was.
22 TOM HANEY: You think you last saw it.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Back in the other room.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Pointing at the suitcase that
25 is pictured in --

0415
1 PATSY RAMSEY: 252.
2 TOM HANEY: Do you know what was stored in it,
3 if anything?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I have no idea.
5 TOM HANEY: Did you ever handle it?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember. I don't
7 remember.
8 TOM HANEY: You might have.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put it there, let's
10 put it that way. I don't know if I -- I mean, I may
11 have moved it out of my way, but I don't remember
12 specifically moving it or putting it somewhere.
13 TOM HANEY: Did you ever put anything into
14 it, take anything out of it?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I presume it is empty.
16 You know, I think I thought it. Was, he packed the
17 college clothes and brought them in the suitcase or he
18 brought the suitcase out. There is probably nothing in
19 it.
20 TOM HANEY: If there was something in it it
21 would belong to John Andrew then?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
23 TOM HANEY: Did John Andrew have a Dr. Seuss
24 book.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Did John Andrew have a Dr.

0416
1 Seuss book? (Inaudible).
2 TOM HANEY: Or when he was older, like now?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I hope not. He is supposed to
4 have college books, not Dr. Seuss books.
5 Why would you ask such a question?
6 TOM HANEY: Well, that is because in that
7 suitcase was a Dr. Seuss book.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: What book was it? Did it have
9 any kid's name in it?
10 TRIP DEMUTH: That I don't know. I think it
11 had John Andrews' name in it.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, it did?
13 TRIP DEMUTH: I think. I haven't personally
14 seen it.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). I don't know.
16 You got me. I don't know.
17 TOM HANEY: Anything else in that photo?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Just that window being open.
19 TRIP DEMUTH: What window is that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the basement window
21 which is under that grate that we had the picture of
22 earlier.
23 TRIP DEMUTH: Underneath the dining room
24 window.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Right, the breakfast window.

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Window and Window Grate)

0417
1 TRIP DEMUTH: The one that leads to the
2 patio.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: How many windows are there?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: How many are here?
6 TRIP DEMUTH: Yeah.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks like three.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know if the screens were
9 off or on?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No. Screens were off, I
11 think.
12 TRIP DEMUTH: No screens on?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't believe so.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Is there some history
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, one of these windows is
16 the one that John -- John got locked out one time,
17 can't remember, at the lake, I think. And he said he
18 broke a window pane and, you know, he reached in and
19 came in through this window right into the house.
20 TRIP DEMUTH: What did you do after the
21 window was broken, did you have some involvement with
22 that at all?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, yes. When I came back,
24 you know, from the lake, I mean there was glass
25 everywhere all over the floor, and I cleaned out --

0418
1 picked up pieces of glass, you know. He never cleaned
2 it up, obviously, and cleaned it up, and I had Linda
3 sweep down there because the kids, the boys would
4 sometimes play in here.
5 TRIP DEMUTH: Did you clear the area out
6 then? Was it cleared of stuff?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, you know, kind of pushed
8 back, but the boys would go down there and play like
9 they are building airplanes.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: What observations did you make
11 about the window when you cleaned up the glass or about
12 that whole area?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, there was one of the
14 panes was broken. I don't remember what it was, but I
15 had asked -- that was another one of the odd jobs to
16 have Linda Huffman (phonetic) and her husband do. He
17 was going to do the odd jobs. I think I asked him to
18 repair that, too, but I don't remember. I don't know
19 whether they did that or not.
20 TRIP DEMUTH: So what else do you remember
21 about that area besides the fact there was a hole in
22 the pane and there was glass on the floor?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean like when I came
24 back?
25 TRIP DEMUTH: Yeah. You were cleaning up

0419
1 down there.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Nothing else, just glass, you
3 know, that I was afraid the kids would get in there.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: What about this mark on the
5 wall?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, gosh, I don't know if I
7 was in there. I think I would have noticed that
8 because I had all that painted.
9 TRIP DEMUTH: I would like you to take the
10 picture out of that sleeve and take your time.
11 PATRICK BURKE: Do you have a better picture
12 of that?
13 TRIP DEMUTH: I don't.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it looks like something
15 scraped that wall to me.
16 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you remember that when you
17 were cleaning up the glass?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't.
19 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you remember it not being
20 there when you cleaned up the glass?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't.
22 TRIP DEMUTH: You talked about John Ramsey
23 coming through that window, do you remember any other
24 times that people were in that window?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

0420
1 TRIP DEMUTH: You did ever have it cleaned
2 out?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: Did the boys ever play in the
5 window?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I mean, because there was
7 a grate on there for that purpose so nobody falls in
8 there. If you were going in the window you had to lift
9 the grate out. It was pretty heavy.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: Other than when John Ramsey
11 broke into the house whenever, was someone in that
12 window, to your knowledge?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Never to my knowledge.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: What was the back part of the
15 train room used for?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Like flower baskets and
17 decorations and party stuff.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Did you store Christmas trees
19 back there?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No. The Christmas trees
21 were back in the other, you know, behind the shower.
22 TRIP DEMUTH: The storage room beyond the
23 laundry room?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I would occasionally
25 put dried flowers down there; artificial, mostly Easter

0421
1 kind of stuff and Halloween.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know why the window
3 wasn't fixed?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't. Was it not
5 fixed?
6 TRIP DEMUTH: Well, what do you know about
7 that window, the condition of that window on Christmas
8 of '96, have you --
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I just remember a little to do
10 list that Linda Huffman had included fixing that pane
11 in that window.
12 Whether he got to it or not, I don't know
13 because he wasn't able to fix the play room doors, you
14 know, so he didn't get to everything.
15 TRIP DEMUTH: Anything else on this photo,
16 Tom?
17 TOM HANEY: That was 252. So 253.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Decorations.
19 TOM HANEY: Storage.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Nothing.
21 TOM HANEY: 251.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Do you know what that is?
23 TOM HANEY: Is that the access to the crawl
24 space?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know what it is. Is

0422
1 this back the same?
2 TOM HANEY: No. I don't think so, that is
3 the same. Huh-uh.
4 254, five and six.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Toy bins that I brought down
6 from the play room. This is their school stuff, this
7 doll.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: Can you see where the glitter
9 is in these photos?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: That little ball of glitter,
11 it would have been in the craft cabinet which was
12 back -- where was it? This one, the paint and all of
13 that.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Referring to photo 248. Okay.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: This was stuff I used for
16 dirty things.

CHAIN OF EVENTS 2000

2000-03-17: John and Patsy Ramsey on Barbara Walters ABC News 20/20

BARBARA WALTERS: The police searched your house but they didn't find JonBenet. But at one point you went downstairs and found an open window.

JOHN RAMSEY: Yes.

BARBARA WALTERS: A window that you had broken yourself at one point to put your hand through and find the latch.

JOHN RAMSEY: Right.

BARBARA (V/O): That window was in a storage room at the rear of the house. It was on the other end of the basement from the room in which JonBenet's body would later be found.

BARBARA WALTERS: What did you think when you saw this open window?

JOHN RAMSEY: I was a bit alarmed, but I was more alarmed with the Samsonite suitcase that was standing up below the window.

BARBARA WALTERS: I have seen the actual police photograph that was taken of that window and the suitcase and, and, there it was in full sight.

JOHN RAMSEY: That looked wrong. That suitcase did not belong there.

PATSY RAMSEY: It was out of place.

JOHN RAMSEY: It was out of place.

BARBARA WALTERS: So you thought perhaps…

JOHN RAMSEY [OVERLAP]: It was.…

BARBARA WALTERS [OVERLAP]:… the kidnapper had gone through that window.

JOHN RAMSEY: I… that was my first impression, yes.

2000-03-20: John and Patsy Ramsey on the Today Show (Part 1)

COURIC: Detective Linda Arndt was assigned to the Ramsey home during those long hours. Sometime that morning, John Ramsey headed for the basement. Why did you go there?

Mr. RAMSEY: We had a basement window that was under a--a grate, a removable grate that I had used the past summer to get into the house when I'd lost my keys. I--I wanted to check that window. I went down to that room. The window was open. It was broken. I went back upstairs and reported that to Detective Arndt.

COURIC: You did tell her about the...

Mr. RAMSEY: Yes.

COURIC: ...open window?

Mr. RAMSEY: I did.

COURIC: And what did she say?

Mr. RAMSEY: I don't recall that she said anything.

2000-03-27: John and Patsy Ramsey guests on LKL Live Show

KING: In the book, you write about the suitcase and the open basement window, but the police say you never told them about it.

J. RAMSEY: That's false.

P. RAMSEY: False.

J. RAMSEY: I told Linda Arndt that I found the window open and I found a suitcase under the window. They have photos of this in their crime scene photos.

2000-04-14: Larry King Live Guest: "Former Boulder Detective, Steve Thomas"

KING: What about the suitcase under the bedroom window?

THOMAS: Well, I think that's easily explained -- under the basement window.

KING: Basement window.

THOMAS: One, a witness in the house that day moved the suitcase, but I don't think these crime scene photos that some are relying upon are necessarily indicative of what a true pristine crime scene was that day.

KING: Meaning?

THOMAS: Meaning, the suitcase was moved at one point during the day before that photograph was taken.

2000-05-05: APBnews.com message board Internet chat with former Boulder Detective Steve Thomas from 5/5/2000 to 5/15/2000

APBnews.com message board - May 10, 2000
Thread: "Initial Comments from Steve Thomas"

jameson (May. 10, 2000 06:31 PM)
SteveThomas (read)

Sorry that the flaming furies are taking advantage of the opportunity to flame me - they are really disrupting your forum here. I really prefer to stick to the case, won't respond to their snotty remarks.

So back to case.

I have a couple of questions. This seems to be the thread you respond to so I will try here.

How can you say there is no evidence of an intruder inthe house when the leaves and "popcorn" were carried in and there was clear evidence of disturbance at the broken window - not a "clean swipe" perhaps, but I have been in the house - there is a "lip" on that windowsill and one would have to lift up to get over - but the photographs Smit shared with Barbara Walters and Newsweek show clear disturbance and evidence someone got in there.

The handwriting on the note - the FBI, CBI and US Secret service - along with several others, can't say it MATCHED Patsy's writing - not even that it was close. If the DA is right when he says the finding was "probably not", how can you use the handwriting as evidence against Patsy. (And please don't point to Foster's work - he states repeatedly that handwriting can be disguised.)

Chet Ubowsky denied the statements you attributed to him (according to some very good sources) - and you admitted on Boyles that you never heard him say those things but you heard the rumors from someone else - could you explain that one?

The DNA mixed with her blood in her panties - male, not Ramsey - that sample is good enough to nail the killer - how can you explain that one? Just where do you think Patsy got THAT - and how would she know how to get it in the panties with none of her own as well?

The red fibers on the tape were consistant with the material in the blazer - not a match - and what about the fact that there were other colors in the blazer - and no fibers on the tape were "consistant" with those?

How about the beaver hair - nothing beaver in the house - just on the tape?

You can't link Patsy to the tape or cord - not before or after the murder - doesn't that give you pause?

The DA said he won't persecute unless he has a case he believes he can win - it wasn't just Hunter but a PANEL whoi decided not to indict - - would you really want to rush in and hurt any future peosecution?

SteveThomas (May. 11, 2000 01:05 AM)
jameson (read)

Dear Jameson,

I dont know why you wont let anyone but the Ramseys and their supporters offer thoughts and opinions? This does not have to be adversarial.

The remarks you raise could fill a ten hour discussion. Briefly:

1. I dispute your interpretation of the leaves, popcorn, debris, and (un)disturbed sill. You and Mr Smit were not there for many months. I don’t know how much of the crime scene photos and reports you have had access to. As you believe I am wrong, so I believe you are mistaken.

2. There IS strong handwriting opinion -- and guess who it points to, and who was the only one who showed evidence to suggest authorship?

3. You are oversimplifying the DNA. Neither you nor I are DNA experts, thus, I relied on those who are experts, and who were part of the investigation. This is not a DNA case. It goes far beyond the depth and breadth of what we can discuss here online.

4. "Consistent" versus "match". Do you remember this argument from the O.J. case. Why were those fibers there at all, that were consistent from Patsy's blazer?

5. I agree with you on one issue about the beaver hair -- too bad there wasnt a DA who would approve warrants and subpoenas for Patsy's fur garments, coats, boots, etc. That way we could have done comparison analyses, and determined if Patsy had anyting that "matched" or was "consistent". Or, for your argument, that didnt. I feel it would have been wise to take those steps, to determine whether there was a match, or not. It would have been invaluable to have known, to both sides.

6. Hunter, in my opinion, rarely will make the call. He relies on others to distance himself from the important decisions. Let's rememebr, though, that the grand jury did not EXONERATE the Ramseys, either. And who do you think Mr Kane targeted in that grand jury?

Jameson, thank you for your thoughtful inquiry. I appreciate and respect your First Amendment right to have an opinion, and I thank you for allowing me mine, and allowing me to repsond to all these other gracious people who also have good questions,

Respectfully,

Steve Thomas

CHAIN OF EVENTS 2003

2003-08-21: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.org)
"The behavior of the Ramseys"

DocG
Member since Jul-11-03
175 posts Aug-21-03, 06:10 PM (EST)

5. "RE: The behavior of the Ramseys"
In response to message #2

(SNIP)

JOHN is the one who claimed he'd broken that window months earlier, thus forestalling the suspicions of staging that would certainly have resulted if he hadn't made such a claim. Once it was clear no one had passed through the grate, it would have been equally clear that someone on the inside had broken that window. But his story about having broken it earlier is preposterous. He says he'd lost his key, but according to Patsy the key was never used, they always entered via the garage. He says he removed his clothing to crawl down into that filthy window well AND that this happened MORE than once. Yet he can't recall how he broke the window, not surprising given the fact that he'd have needed to remove his shoes before taking off his pants. Sorry none of this will wash. Looks to me very likely he could have broken that window the night of the murder to make it look like an intruder was present.

(SNIP)

jameson
Charter Member
13280 posts Aug-21-03, 07:59 PM (EST)

6. "RE: The behavior of the Ramseys"
In response to message #5

"JOHN is the one who claimed he'd broken that window months earlier, thus forestalling the suspicions of staging that would certainly have resulted if he hadn't made such a claim. Once it was clear no one had passed through the grate, it would have been equally clear that someone on the inside had broken that window. But his story about having broken it earlier is preposterous."

No, it is not. John broke that window and went in that way - there was a witness to that incident - the witness told the police about it - - I know who the witness was, the police accept that testimony.... And others knew about that incident - including Linda Hoffmann-Pugh.

"He says he'd lost his key, but according to Patsy the key was never used, they always entered via the garage"

I was of the belief that his garage door opener didn't work and he didn't have a key with him - - not hard to believe.

"He says he removed his clothing to crawl down into that filthy window well AND that this happened MORE than once. Yet he can't recall how he broke the window, not surprising given the fact that he'd have needed to remove his shoes before taking off his pants"

I think he knows he kicked the window to reach the lock - be the details.... when you put on your socks this morning, which did you put on first - - are you SURE???

If he was making up a story for the cops, I would have expected it to have been very clear - - the fact he admits he forgot some details is not surprising to me - not for an honest man.

As far as taking his suit off - - I think the witness saw that as well.... my records are not here, maybe next month I will get to review some of them and get back to you on it.

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