June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Regarding "The Colbys")
9 TOM HANEY: I want to talk about
10 some of the kids from the neighborhood too.
11 This Luke, is it Vermiere?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Vermiere, yes.
13 Next door, yes.
14 TOM HANEY: What, what about him,
15 how much time did he spend at your place, who
16 did he play with?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: You know, I mean he
18 wasn't in our house really very much. He was
19 with Burke and certainly JonBenet, but he was a
20 very sweet child and would give JonBenet
21 attention. You know, even when she was real
22 little, he would stoop down and talk with her
23 and all that.
24 And she, she was -- I thought was a
25 child that could have a little crush, you know,
1 she sort of liked him, because he was soft
2 spoken and gentle and you know. Pretty features
3 and you know, just a nice little boy. She would
4 get kind of flush she -- sort of around him or
5 something. And she called him Big Luke, because
6 we had another friend, Luke Fernie who we
7 referred to him as Little Luke. But he was not
8 ever really around a lot.
9 TRIP DeMUTH: You say he would give
10 JonBenet attention. Would he play with her?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Not really. I mean
12 I sort of kept an eyeball there. Because he was
13 a little bit older, you know. But he would just
14 be -- you know, there might be several kids down
15 on the patio, the back patio, he would be on a
16 bike or something and he would talk with her or
18 TRIP DeMUTH: Did he ever spend any
19 amount of time in the house playing with Burke,
20 for example?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: A lot of the
22 neighborhood boys came over and would play video
23 games with Burke. The Colby (phonetic) boys,
24 Luke sometimes, but he was just a little bit
25 older, you know, so he really wasn't there too
1 much. And Wes, one of the children of the
2 couple next door, Priscilla and Scott.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Gibbons?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Gibbons, yes.
5 TRIP DeMUTH: How old was Wes?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Wes was a couple of
7 years older than Burke.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: How often would he
9 come over?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: It would be kind of
11 sporadic, because they were kind of at their
12 mom's and here, it wasn't an everyday thing.
13 So -- and it was -- I know it wasn't a whole
14 lot, because we weren't there in the summertime
15 that much and this would mostly be, you know, in
16 the evenings after school. That didn't last too
17 long, because you had dinner and then get ready
18 for a bath and bed.
19 So they would all congregate at our
20 house because we had the swing and the porch and
21 sandbox and the videos and all that. The video,
22 you know, Nintendo and all that. But --
23 TRIP DeMUTH: When you say they
24 would congregate, would they come and go from
25 your house just sort of?
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, Colby
2 (phonetic) boys would get in the refrigerator,
3 get a glass of milk and cookies.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: So was your house
5 kind of an open house for the local kids?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum, uh-hum.
7 TOM HANEY: And Luke had an older
8 brother Adam?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know that I
10 ever met Adam.
11 TOM HANEY: You didn't--
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
13 TOM HANEY: He never came over?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.
15 TOM HANEY: Do you know what he
16 did, was he going to school?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: I believe he was
18 going to school. I think that he had, was in a
19 back brace or something for a while. I think
20 his mother told me. You know, I would sometimes
21 see him come and go with Forest in a car or
22 something, but I can't remember (INAUDIBLE).
23 TOM HANEY: Did you ever see any
24 unusual activity on his part, parties while mom
25 and dad are gone or any disruptive--
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.
2 TOM HANEY: You mentioned the
3 Colbys, they are quite a bit older than your
4 kids, right?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, well, Evan was
6 nearly Burke's age, he was like a year older.
7 And Kai was two, three years older. But very
8 young acting, you know, still like roller
9 blading and Nintendo and that kind of thing.
10 TOM HANEY: And they spent a lot of
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
13 TOM HANEY: And how about the older
14 brother, was it Jordan?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Jordan was the
17 TOM HANEY: Daughter?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, yeah.
19 TOM HANEY: Did she spend time
20 there or baby-sit or--
21 PATSY RAMSEY: She would come down
22 usually just to get Evan. Seemed like he
23 practically lived at our house, you know. She
24 would come down and get him. And dinner,
25 whatever, she was kind of just little watch dog,
1 I guess. She would come after him, she never
2 really baby-sat or was at the house much.
3 She was kind of in her little
4 world. She had this outdoor swing and I mean
5 that kid was out there swinging on that swing
6 morning, noon and night. Priscilla and Fleet
7 had to have just a (INAUDIBLE) for a while or
8 something. That kid was out there 10:30 at
9 night swinging on that swing. You know, she --
10 just ice cold, doesn't matter what the weather
12 TOM HANEY: Just swinging?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Swinging, swinging,
14 like one of the birch swings with the disk, you
15 know, and (INAUDIBLE).
7 TRIP DeMUTH: A couple of questions
8 Tom. With Evan Colby, was there ever a time
9 when Burke and Evan were under the porch without
10 their clothes on something, like that?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding).
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Can you tell me about
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think
15 Cynthia Savage, my housekeeper-nanny, told me
16 about that one time. They were, there isn't a
17 porch to be under, but I think Evan taught Burke
18 that it was easier to go pee-pee outside than to
19 take the time to go inside to go pee-pee, so he
20 sort of taught him how to go behind the tree.
21 Evan is a little guy.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: How little is little
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I want to say
25 Burke was probably six or seven, Evan was 7 or
1 8, or something like that. And Suzanne told me
2 she came out and saw -- I think she said they
3 were kind of by where we kept this trash can,
4 sort on the left side of the garage and Evan had
5 his pants down showing Burke his -- works.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: Would Burke also have
7 his pants down or not?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think
9 I heard that.
10 TRIP DeMUTH: Did Millie
11 Stanton across the street from you, did
12 she have boys?
June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Regarding "The Colbys")
13 PATSY RAMSEY: She had a little
14 boy, Joey. He was younger. I think that he was
15 more Burke's age.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: Did he come over to
18 PATSY RAMSEY: He came over,
20 TRIP DeMUTH: Did he have any
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. They lived at
23 one time on one side of Joe and Betty and then
24 they moved away for a while, then they moved
25 back on to the other side of Joe and Betty. And
1 we didn't really see each other too much when
2 they moved back because I think he was ill for a
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you have very
5 much interaction with Millie Stanton at all?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Who lived up the
8 street? Did Fleet and Priscilla used to live
9 two doors uphill from you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Right, yeah.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: And they moved out
12 prior to December of '96?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, they had bought
14 a house over on Cleveland.
15 TRIP DeMUTH: And that was a rental
16 house, was it?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: The one up the
18 street from us was, yes.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Who was living in
20 that house the summer of '96, do you know?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, but
22 there were some children living there, because
23 they came to play. They came down to play a
24 couple of days before Christmas and one little
25 girl was kind of dark skinned and I think the
1 other little girl was kind of a little heavier
2 set. Maybe Mary might have been one of the
3 little girl's names.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
25 THOMAS HANEY: How about other dogs
1 in this neighborhood, were there a lot of I mean
2 real dogs?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE) dogs.
4 The Cobys (phonetic) had a dog, a German
6 THOMAS HANEY: Do you ever remember
7 being awakened or bothered by the dogs in the
8 neighborhood barking?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
7 THOMAS HANEY: Crab, we have got
9 You said the Whites previously
10 rented or lived in the house right by you,
11 right? Who was living in that house at that
12 time, did you know those people?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean who they
14 had rented from?
15 THOMAS HANEY: Who was living in
16 that house on Christmas '96?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, gee, I don't
18 know. I don't know -- I don't know. Somebody
19 was, and they had children and the children
21 THOMAS HANEY: Okay.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: And these, the one
23 little girl had a kind of darker complexion and
24 the other little girl was a little heavier set.
25 I think one of them's name was Mary, but that's
1 the first time we really met them
2 THOMAS HANEY: But they were over
3 sometime on Christmas --
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
5 THOMAS HANEY: -- to play.
6 Who else did JonBenet play with on
7 Christmas in the daytime, just kind of
8 separating time frames here?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she and Burke
10 played, Burke played with the Coby kids and
11 these little girls. And then of course we went
12 to the Whites and she and Daphne played with
14 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay, but before you
15 went to the Whites.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Went to the Whites?
17 Well, it would have been, you know, mostly --
18 TRIP DeMUTH: The Coby kids?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: -- the Coby kids.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: Which ones?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Kai and Evan.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: And these two little
23 girls from up the street?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: That were in the
25 house that Fleet and Priscilla used to live.
1 TRIP DeMUTH: So that's -- what
2 about Luke Vermiere, or Luke from across the
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Big Luke? No.
5 TRIP DeMUTH: He didn't come over
6 that day.
7 Can you remember any other kids
8 that day, Christmas Day, before you go to the
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: I imagine they are
12 playing with their toys and showing each other
13 what they got?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. Most of the
15 little kids around were Burke's friends.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: So pretty much that's
17 who you remember?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: And who did JonBenet
20 play with of those kids?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: With -- well, they
22 were all kind of playing together. You know,
23 they were outside. Then they would all come in
24 and she was making little jewelry things and I
25 sat and played with her doing the jewelry
1 things. And she was in her room, she was making
2 a little pot holder kind of thing, I think.
3 Those little moving kind of things, you know.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Another thing that
5 happens sometimes is people might drop by on
6 Christmas Day to say hi, bring a basket by. See
7 the kids, friends, other people. Think about
8 Christmas Day, if you could, before you go to
9 the Whites. Anybody drop in?
10 John went to the airport, right?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I was wrapping more
12 gifts to take to the Whites.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Right. And the kids
14 were playing. You might have been there, a
15 relative, somebody came by. Wrapping, right,
16 maybe nobody came by. You don't remember?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't.
18 TRIP DeMUTH: You don't remember
19 anybody coming by, anything like that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: (No response.)
21 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Before a lady came
23 by and dropped off a painting I had gotten for
24 Burke. You know about that.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Yes.
1 PATSY RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE.) That
2 was not Christmas Day.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: How about Christmas
4 Eve, the day before Christmas, did anybody come
5 by to visit then? I know this is a hard
7 PATSY RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE.)
8 TRIP DeMUTH: And if you don't
9 remember, that's fine.