[ACandyRose Logo] A Personal view of the Internet Subculture
Surrounding the JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

This web page is part of a series covering found materials regarding individuals, items or events that apparently became part of what is commonly known as the vortex of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case Christmas night 1996. The webmaster of this site claims no inside official Boulder police information as to who has been interviewed, investigated, the outcome or what information is actually considered official evidence. These pages outline found material which can include but not limited to materials found in books, articles, the Internet, transcripts, depositions, legal documents, Internet discussion forums, graphics or photos, media reports, TV/Radio shows about the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. Found materials are here for historical archive purposes. (www.acandyrose.com - acandyrose@aol.com)
This webpage series is for historical archive and educational purposes on found materials

Neighbors - Neighborhood Children
Friends of Burke and JonBenet


1997-04-30: Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo

Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo
Also present, Pat Burke, Bryan Morgan, Pete Hoffstrom, Jon Foster
April 30, 1997 - Boulder, Colorado


TT: Okay. Patsy, tell me, let’s start with Burke. Um, tell me about some of the kids that he plays with. Tell me some of this playmates.
PR: Um, well, he is among a group of seven boys in his class.
TT: Okay.

PR: Uh, he uh, Doug Stine, plays with Doug Stine and . . .
TT: Um hum.
PR: . . .Luke Fernie are buddies and Anthony Pechio, from his class. Those are, Luke Fernie does not, goes to Mesa, but . . .
TT: Right.
PR: . . .he’s just a friend otherwise.
TT: Okay.
PR: Um, He played with the Colby boys which, who live behind us. . .
TT: Um hum.
PR: . . .in the alley, played with them.
TT: Okay.
PR: Quite frequently.

TT: So he had kind of two distinct groups, at school, social group and then the neighbor. . .
PR: Neighborhood.
TT: . . .social group?
PR: Right.
TT: Okay. Um, other than the two boys across the alley, I know from the neighborhood, there’s not a lot of little kids in there.
PR: Right.
TT: Um, any other kids that, that Burke would play with around the area?

PR: Well, sometimes, uh, Scott and Pricilla’s children from other marriages would be around. Weston, Wesson or Weston and uh, Reid is the little boy I think.
TT: Okay.
PR: And then on the other side of us is uh, Luke, whose older than Burke, but he always been around occasionally, you know.

TT: Okay.
PR: And that’s about all I think.


TT: Um, what about uh, Burke’s friends. How often did they come over to the house?

PR: Well, the Colby boys, you know, since they were neighborhood kids, they seemed to come over more frequently, because they just, more accessible.
TT: Um hum.
PR: Um.
TT: They’re the ones right behind you in the alley?
PR: Right. Oh, I don’t know. A couple of times a week maybe or . . .

TT: Okay.
PR: . . .something like that.


TT: Okay. What about some of JonBenet’s playmates? She had some in school?

PR: School mostly, yeah. Well, pre-school, Quinn Hasley was one of her best little girlfriends.
TT: Okay.
PR: And uh, Daphne White.

TT: Um hum. Did they all go to the same pre-school?
PR: Yeah.
TT: And that’s . . .
PR: First Presbyterian.
TT: Down of 15th and Canyon.
PR: Right.
TT: Is that right?
PR: Um hum, um hum.
TT: Okay. Okay.

PR: And uh, then this year in Kindergarten she like little Annie Smart and uh, Megan Kostinick. She liked them.
TT: Okay. Did these little girls ever come over to you, to your house to play?
PR: Um hum. Um hum.
TT: About how often would they come over?
PR: Oh, about once very couple of weeks maybe or so.


TT: OK. Anyone that you can recall that would show any inappropriate affection towards JonBenet? Anybody out in the pageant circuit, friends, neighbors, anybody like that?
PR: No.
TT: OK. Anything bothering JonBenet? Did she talk about anybody in general or anything that was bothering her at all?
PR: Huh-uh.
TT: Was she afraid of anybody? Anybody that she talked about that she didn’t like, she was afraid of, again, from the neighborhood, family, friends, anybody like that that she talked about being afraid of?

PR: She was a little shy with that Luke next door, I think a little blonde fellow. But he was always just real nice to her. I think she kind of had a little crush on him or something. I mean, I can of, always took him as that. By the was never, he never hugged her or any, we never saw him…
TT: She ever talk about being afraid of Luke or anything like that?
PR: No. She’d just kind of get real shy, I mean this is since she was little, kind of get shy with him or something like that.



[Patsy Ramsey, June 1998 Interviews]1998-06-23: Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Screen Capture on left is from "CBS 48 Hours Investigates - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth - Present also were Patrick Burke and Ellis Armistead June 23, 24, 25, 1998 - Boulder, Colorado


June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Regarding "The Colbys")

9 TOM HANEY: I want to talk about
10 some of the kids from the neighborhood too.
11 This Luke, is it Vermiere?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Vermiere, yes.
13 Next door, yes.
14 TOM HANEY: What, what about him,
15 how much time did he spend at your place, who
16 did he play with?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: You know, I mean he
18 wasn't in our house really very much. He was
19 with Burke and certainly JonBenet, but he was a
20 very sweet child and would give JonBenet
21 attention. You know, even when she was real
22 little, he would stoop down and talk with her
23 and all that.
24 And she, she was -- I thought was a
25 child that could have a little crush, you know,

1 she sort of liked him, because he was soft
2 spoken and gentle and you know. Pretty features
3 and you know, just a nice little boy. She would
4 get kind of flush she -- sort of around him or
5 something. And she called him Big Luke, because
6 we had another friend, Luke Fernie who we
7 referred to him as Little Luke. But he was not
8 ever really around a lot.
9 TRIP DeMUTH: You say he would give
10 JonBenet attention. Would he play with her?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Not really. I mean
12 I sort of kept an eyeball there. Because he was
13 a little bit older, you know. But he would just
14 be -- you know, there might be several kids down
15 on the patio, the back patio, he would be on a
16 bike or something and he would talk with her or
17 something.
18 TRIP DeMUTH: Did he ever spend any
19 amount of time in the house playing with Burke,
20 for example?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: A lot of the
22 neighborhood boys came over and would play video
23 games with Burke. The Colby (phonetic) boys,
24 Luke sometimes, but he was just a little bit
25 older, you know, so he really wasn't there too

1 much. And Wes, one of the children of the
2 couple next door, Priscilla and Scott.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Gibbons?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Gibbons, yes.
5 TRIP DeMUTH: How old was Wes?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Wes was a couple of
7 years older than Burke.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: How often would he
9 come over?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: It would be kind of
11 sporadic, because they were kind of at their
12 mom's and here, it wasn't an everyday thing.
13 So -- and it was -- I know it wasn't a whole
14 lot, because we weren't there in the summertime
15 that much and this would mostly be, you know, in
16 the evenings after school. That didn't last too
17 long, because you had dinner and then get ready
18 for a bath and bed.
19 So they would all congregate at our
20 house because we had the swing and the porch and
21 sandbox and the videos and all that. The video,
22 you know, Nintendo and all that. But --
23 TRIP DeMUTH: When you say they
24 would congregate, would they come and go from
25 your house just sort of?

1 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, Colby
2 (phonetic) boys would get in the refrigerator,
3 get a glass of milk and cookies.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: So was your house
5 kind of an open house for the local kids?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum, uh-hum.
7 TOM HANEY: And Luke had an older
8 brother Adam?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know that I
10 ever met Adam.
11 TOM HANEY: You didn't--
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
13 TOM HANEY: He never came over?
15 TOM HANEY: Do you know what he
16 did, was he going to school?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: I believe he was
18 going to school. I think that he had, was in a
19 back brace or something for a while. I think
20 his mother told me. You know, I would sometimes
21 see him come and go with Forest in a car or
22 something, but I can't remember (INAUDIBLE).
23 TOM HANEY: Did you ever see any
24 unusual activity on his part, parties while mom
25 and dad are gone or any disruptive--

2 TOM HANEY: You mentioned the
3 Colbys, they are quite a bit older than your
4 kids, right?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, well, Evan was
6 nearly Burke's age, he was like a year older.
7 And Kai was two, three years older. But very
8 young acting, you know, still like roller
9 blading and Nintendo and that kind of thing.
10 TOM HANEY: And they spent a lot of
11 time?
13 TOM HANEY: And how about the older
14 brother, was it Jordan?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Jordan was the
16 daughter.
17 TOM HANEY: Daughter?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, yeah.
19 TOM HANEY: Did she spend time
20 there or baby-sit or--
21 PATSY RAMSEY: She would come down
22 usually just to get Evan. Seemed like he
23 practically lived at our house, you know. She
24 would come down and get him. And dinner,
25 whatever, she was kind of just little watch dog,

1 I guess. She would come after him, she never
2 really baby-sat or was at the house much.
3 She was kind of in her little
4 world. She had this outdoor swing and I mean
5 that kid was out there swinging on that swing
6 morning, noon and night. Priscilla and Fleet
7 had to have just a (INAUDIBLE) for a while or
8 something. That kid was out there 10:30 at
9 night swinging on that swing. You know, she --
10 just ice cold, doesn't matter what the weather
11 was.
12 TOM HANEY: Just swinging?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Swinging, swinging,
14 like one of the birch swings with the disk, you
15 know, and (INAUDIBLE).



7 TRIP DeMUTH: A couple of questions
8 Tom. With Evan Colby, was there ever a time
9 when Burke and Evan were under the porch without
10 their clothes on something, like that?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding).
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Can you tell me about
13 that?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think
15 Cynthia Savage, my housekeeper-nanny, told me
16 about that one time. They were, there isn't a
17 porch to be under, but I think Evan taught Burke
18 that it was easier to go pee-pee outside than to
19 take the time to go inside to go pee-pee, so he
20 sort of taught him how to go behind the tree.
21 Evan is a little guy.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: How little is little
23 Evan?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I want to say
25 Burke was probably six or seven, Evan was 7 or

1 8, or something like that. And Suzanne told me
2 she came out and saw -- I think she said they
3 were kind of by where we kept this trash can,
4 sort on the left side of the garage and Evan had
5 his pants down showing Burke his -- works.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: Would Burke also have
7 his pants down or not?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think
9 I heard that.

10 TRIP DeMUTH: Did Millie
11 Stanton across the street from you, did
12 she have boys?

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Regarding "The Colbys")

13 PATSY RAMSEY: She had a little
14 boy, Joey. He was younger. I think that he was
15 more Burke's age.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: Did he come over to
17 play?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: He came over,
19 uh-hum.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: Did he have any
21 brothers?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. They lived at
23 one time on one side of Joe and Betty and then
24 they moved away for a while, then they moved
25 back on to the other side of Joe and Betty. And

1 we didn't really see each other too much when
2 they moved back because I think he was ill for a
3 while.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you have very
5 much interaction with Millie Stanton at all?
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Who lived up the
8 street? Did Fleet and Priscilla used to live
9 two doors uphill from you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Right, yeah.
11 TRIP DeMUTH: And they moved out
12 prior to December of '96?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, they had bought
14 a house over on Cleveland.
15 TRIP DeMUTH: And that was a rental
16 house, was it?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: The one up the
18 street from us was, yes.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Who was living in
20 that house the summer of '96, do you know?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, but
22 there were some children living there, because
23 they came to play. They came down to play a
24 couple of days before Christmas and one little
25 girl was kind of dark skinned and I think the

1 other little girl was kind of a little heavier
2 set. Maybe Mary might have been one of the
3 little girl's names.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.


25 THOMAS HANEY: How about other dogs

1 in this neighborhood, were there a lot of I mean
2 real dogs?
4 The Cobys (phonetic) had a dog, a German
5 shepherd.
6 THOMAS HANEY: Do you ever remember
7 being awakened or bothered by the dogs in the
8 neighborhood barking?


7 THOMAS HANEY: Crab, we have got
8 that.
9 You said the Whites previously
10 rented or lived in the house right by you,
11 right? Who was living in that house at that
12 time, did you know those people?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: You mean who they
14 had rented from?
15 THOMAS HANEY: Who was living in
16 that house on Christmas '96?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, gee, I don't
18 know. I don't know -- I don't know. Somebody
19 was, and they had children and the children
20 came.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: And these, the one
23 little girl had a kind of darker complexion and
24 the other little girl was a little heavier set.
25 I think one of them's name was Mary, but that's

1 the first time we really met them
2 THOMAS HANEY: But they were over
3 sometime on Christmas --
5 THOMAS HANEY: -- to play.
6 Who else did JonBenet play with on
7 Christmas in the daytime, just kind of
8 separating time frames here?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she and Burke
10 played, Burke played with the Coby kids and
11 these little girls. And then of course we went
12 to the Whites and she and Daphne played with
13 Burke.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay, but before you
15 went to the Whites.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Went to the Whites?
17 Well, it would have been, you know, mostly --
18 TRIP DeMUTH: The Coby kids?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: -- the Coby kids.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: Which ones?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Kai and Evan.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: And these two little
23 girls from up the street?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: That were in the
25 house that Fleet and Priscilla used to live.

1 TRIP DeMUTH: So that's -- what
2 about Luke Vermiere, or Luke from across the
3 street?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Big Luke? No.
5 TRIP DeMUTH: He didn't come over
6 that day.
7 Can you remember any other kids
8 that day, Christmas Day, before you go to the
9 Whites?
11 TRIP DeMUTH: I imagine they are
12 playing with their toys and showing each other
13 what they got?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. Most of the
15 little kids around were Burke's friends.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: So pretty much that's
17 who you remember?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: And who did JonBenet
20 play with of those kids?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: With -- well, they
22 were all kind of playing together. You know,
23 they were outside. Then they would all come in
24 and she was making little jewelry things and I
25 sat and played with her doing the jewelry

1 things. And she was in her room, she was making
2 a little pot holder kind of thing, I think.
3 Those little moving kind of things, you know.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Another thing that
5 happens sometimes is people might drop by on
6 Christmas Day to say hi, bring a basket by. See
7 the kids, friends, other people. Think about
8 Christmas Day, if you could, before you go to
9 the Whites. Anybody drop in?
10 John went to the airport, right?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I was wrapping more
12 gifts to take to the Whites.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Right. And the kids
14 were playing. You might have been there, a
15 relative, somebody came by. Wrapping, right,
16 maybe nobody came by. You don't remember?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't.
18 TRIP DeMUTH: You don't remember
19 anybody coming by, anything like that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: (No response.)
21 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Before a lady came
23 by and dropped off a painting I had gotten for
24 Burke. You know about that.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Yes.

2 was not Christmas Day.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: How about Christmas
4 Eve, the day before Christmas, did anybody come
5 by to visit then? I know this is a hard
6 question.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: And if you don't
9 remember, that's fine.

[John Ramsey, June 1998 Interviews]1998-06-23: John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Screen Capture on left is from "CBS 48 Hours Investigates - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane
Present also were Bryan Morgan, PI David Williams
June 23, 24, 25, 1998 - Boulder, Colorado


June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Neighbor, Kid's Friends)

18 LOU SMIT: Try to think about that a little
19 bit. It's just one of those things that we're
20 trying to determine who all would have gone in
21 there into that room at a specific time. That's
22 whey we have to find that out. That's why
23 specifically if you can think about it. I know to
24 sequence your memory is kind of hard. But it's one
25 of those things that I figure you can think about

1 a little bit.
2 Just to back up just a little bit. After the
3 children opened their gifts, do you know what they
4 did that day, your children?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Well they played around the
6 house. There were some kids in and out, I think.
7 Because I wasn't there for several hours.
8 LOU SMIT: And where were these kids from?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Only, I think based -- well

10 I'm pretty sure I saw Evan and Kile, I forget
11 their last name.
12 LOU SMIT: Coby?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: Coby. They were there. I don't
14 remember specifically knowing that. But I think
15 Patsy, I heard her saying neighbors and girls from
16 up the street.

17 LOU SMIT: Do you know their names?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't. I don't.
19 LOU SMIT: We were trying to determine who
20 all JonBenet or Burke had had any contact. And
21 later on we'll kind of get into those reasons. But
22 right now we have to find out any contact with the
23 children.

24 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, I know. Well, there were
25 a number of kids there that day. Our house was

1 always kind of, kids were in and out of there all
2 the time and it was usually the Coby boys. There

3 was a family that lived not immediately next door,
4 but the house over, that had moved in recently
5 after the Whites had left the house. I didn't know
6 them. I think there were a couple of girls in the
7 house that had come down to play.
8 LOU SMIT: How about the children like to
9 the south of you?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: Let's see, south. That's --

12 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. It's possible. But I don't
13 remember seeing them there. But they were there
14 occasionally. The boy, the son, this is on the
15 house next to us, towards the baseline. Their son,
16 who seemed like a very nice kid, was always
17 attentive to JonBenet in a nice way; a brotherly
18 way, I thought.
19 LOU SMIT: Do you know his name?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't.
21 LOU SMIT: Is it Luke?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Luke? That rings a bell, yeah.
23 That's right.

24 LOU SMIT: Do you know of anybody from the
25 family who always lived next door to the north?

0093 1 JOHN RAMSEY: Not a lot. They had a child and
2 they were divorced after that. He had children
3 from another marriage; two boys, I think. All nice
4 kids.
5 LOU SMIT: And were they around them that day?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember for sure. Patsy
7 probably would remember that.
8 LOU SMIT: See, we're trying to determine
9 the gap of anybody who could have contact, and
10 usually the neighbors and people close and we
11 would just like to have their names.
12 JOHN RAMSEY: Again, Patsy would have more
13 information on that.
14 LOU SMIT: Or maybe Burke would have some
15 information on that, I'm not sure. (INAUDIBLE).
16 JOHN RAMSEY: There was a little girl, I
17 think, that lived diagonally across the street
18 that --
19 LOU SMIT: Which way was that?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: This would have been south
21 and east, next to the Barnhills, south of the
22 Barnhills.
23 LOU SMIT: Okay.
24 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it was a single mother
25 that rented that house. And I think she had a

1 daughter or a son, was that a son. Maybe it was a
2 son. I don't remember. It might have been a boy.
3 They moved. They would come over occasionally but
4 not often.
5 LOU SMIT: What I'm going to do, I'm going
6 to show you a small diagram. I might have a bigger
7 diagram which I'm going to bring in after a while
8 when we get into the neighbors.
10 LOU SMIT: This is a small diagram that we
11 have and it just kind of shows the relationship of
12 houses in the area. It's not to scale or anything.
13 We'd like to just look at it. This is your home,
14 755, and across the street is the Barnhills. And
15 which address were you talking about about the
16 other little girl.
17 JOHN RAMSEY: It would have been this one,
18 738.
19 LOU SMIT: 738?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I think it was a boy.
21 They had a child. She had a child. I think it was
22 a little boy. But that's the house I was talking
23 about.
24 LOU SMIT: Now you say he may have come over?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't know that he did

0095 1 that day. But I said he's come over once in a
2 while.


20 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. Another
21 thing that happened that night was, there was a
22 couple that moved in down the street in 777,
23 15th, that had lost a child, and somebody that
24 was at the church party said gee, I know these
25 people, they are really nice, I would like to

1 invite them up and have you meet them. They
2 came up that evening.
3 LOU SMIT: They lived there?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, I don't
5 remember the names. Arno (phonetic) -- yeah,
6 yes, Arnold, unusual name. So this lady or
7 couple, I think it was a couple, invited them
8 up, they came up about 9:30, 10 o'clock, kind of
9 as the church party was winding down and they
10 stayed in the kitchen, talked for half hour, 45
11 minutes, and I had never met them before.
12 And --
13 LOU SMIT: When was that foyer
14 party?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: That was at the
16 foyer party.
17 LOU SMIT: When was it?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: That evening,
19 probably 9:30, 10. Gosh, I don't know. I could
20 look at the calendar, but it had been like
21 the --
22 LOU SMIT: In December?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: In December, yeah.
24 In mid December.



25 LOU SMIT: Next door to you, again,

1 I asked you this once before, next door to the
2 north, is the Gibbons and I show that in the
3 phone book, there is a Reid Gibbons listed with
4 a phone number. I know they have a young boy
5 named (INAUDIBLE) is there another boy in there
6 named Reid or anybody older named Reid that
7 maybe had a telephone?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Geez, I don't know,
9 I don't think so. Scott and Priscilla were the

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Neighbor, Kid's Friends)

10 parents. Reid I think was their youngest child.
11 I remember when he was born. Scott had well,
12 Weston I think was Scott's son from another
13 marriage, I am not sure about --
14 LOU SMIT: Did he live there?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: He didn't all the
16 time. He visited.
17 LOU SMIT: How old is he?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Then he was, you
19 know, Burke's age, give or take. But I don't
20 know why --
21 LOU SMIT: Any older kids that
22 lived there?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: They had seems like,
24 seems like they had someone who lived in the
25 basement for a while. Could that be?

1 LOU SMIT: A lot of times when you
2 start a homicide investigation you start right
3 -- in fact, I had a detective tell me that just
4 recently too, you start winding tight circles
5 around, and that's why I was wondering if you
6 had anybody that could have even lived next
7 door. Like I, said I never --
9 JOHN RAMSEY: There might have
10 been. It kind of rings a bell. I think there
11 was also someone that lived in the apartment at
12 one time above 745. They had like an upstairs
13 apartment. It was -- I don't know if it was a
14 full-fledged apartment. I think someone lived
15 up there.
16 LOU SMIT: That's next door to
17 you --
18 JOHN RAMSEY: To the south.
19 LOU SMIT: To the south, okay.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. 738 was a
21 rental house. 764 was a rental house. The next
22 one down, 774. 7 -- I think it's just those
23 two.
24 LOU SMIT: How about the across the
25 alley from you, I have always been interested in

1 those houses back there. Were you ever
2 acquainted with anybody back there?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: No. I talked to
4 this lady once in that house there.
5 LOU SMIT: That's 756?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, she was a
7 British lady. We did meet these people, David
8 and Ann.
The Cobies were weird as hell,
9 frankly. Their house was a pig sty. I mean it
10 was, I had never been in it but Patsy had, and
11 she just described it was, you know, a mattress
12 on the floor for the kids, the kids always
13 dressed themselves, they looked like they just
14 dressed themselves in the morning and were I
15 felt very uncared for. He was very weird.
16 LOU SMIT: Who is he?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: The husband, or the
18 father. He told me once that he was teaching
19 his kids how to ride a bike and he would knock
20 them over so they would learn how to fall off a
21 bike. One day Burke took over a little gun, a
22 plastic gun and he just went crazy, he didn't
23 want any guns in the house.
24 LOU SMIT: Do you know what the
25 man's name is?

1 JOHN RAMSEY: Ruth and -- Patsy
2 would know. He worked for the state. I think.
3 He used to take the bus down to Denver every
4 day. Just, their daughter who was at that time
5 maybe early teenager, would spend hours and
6 hours and hours out on the swing in the
7 backyard, just swinging and swinging, it was
8 like a rope swing. And somebody said gee, that
9 must be -- there must be something wrong with
10 her. We said no, maybe she just doesn't want to
11 be in the house.
12 That's probably right. Evan was a
13 strange little kid. He was --
16 JOHN RAMSEY: I just didn't care
17 for him. He was, one time JonBenet was out in
18 the driveway and she had a -- this was several
19 years ago, she had a dress on that didn't have
20 underwear on because it gotten taken off or what
21 and Evan was down, you know, trying to look
22 under her dress and here he was probably at that
23 time a 7 or 8-year-old. I said Evan, cut that
24 out.
25 LOU SMIT: Now didn't they have an

1 older one there too?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Kai was there, they
3 had a daughter, two daughters. Ruth was the
4 mom, and the daughter was older than the boys,
5 you know. But --

6 LOU SMIT: How about directly
7 behind you in 756?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I think that's
9 the British couple, the British lady. I have
10 never met him.
11 LOU SMIT: Do you know if they were
12 home at that time in Christmas of 1996?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't.
14 DAVID WILLIAMS: That the one with
15 the large antenna at the back?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: This one here,
17 that's Kenny Smith. I had met him also
18 actually. He owns a cheese store. He was a
19 nice little guy.
20 LOU SMIT: We had heard that there
21 was a caretaker in one of those two houses in
22 the back, someone was caring for the house right
23 about that time. I don't know if you know
24 anything about that or if you had heard anything
25 on that?

1 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't. We had
2 heard once this lady lived here before these
3 people bought it.
5 JOHN RAMSEY: She was a single
6 divorced women or divorced woman, no kids, was
7 going to CU, and somebody told us that she took
8 in boarders and -- which we didn't know. It was
9 kind of a surprise. But she had sold the house
10 and -- that house actually sat empty for quite a
11 while. There was something -- there were some
12 students who lived in that house after she sold
13 it and these people moved in.
14 LOU SMIT: 777?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. These people
16 did not move in right away. It was maybe almost
17 a year later.
18 LOU SMIT: Now, one of the thing
19 that I was always interested in is you have done
20 a lot of investigating into this, and you were
21 around, probably knew some of the people or some
22 of the people had talked to you like Joe
23 Barnhill across the street or maybe the nextdoor
24 lady to the south there. Did anyone, to your
25 knowledge, move out suddenly after this or did

1 you have any indication that somebody may have
2 left suddenly?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember
4 anybody doing that.


22 VOICE: The only two people that I
23 can think of who moved away, they may have been
24 neighborhood people, we don't know of them, but
25 the only two people that we know of that moved

1 away that was in some way involved in this
2 incident or that's why they moved away, was
3 Randy Simons who moved a hundred miles east of
4 the city, and McReynolds. (INAUDIBLE).


[Death of Innocence]2000-03-18: “Death of Innocence”
Written by John and Patsy Ramsey, March 18, 2000

DOI Page 5

"Once breakfast was over, the day unfolded with the usual chaos of the neighborhood children coming and going, reporting on the loot that had been left for them. The boys from across the alley drifted in with their remote-control toys, and they all went outside to race their cars up and down the street in front of our house."


DOI Page 7

"I always loved hanging around airports, and Christmas Day was no different. I loaded some of the gifts that were going to Michigan and made sure the plane was ready to go. I inherited the flying bug from my father, Jay Ramsey, who had been a decorated World War II pilot. His many missions across the treacherous Himalayas between India and China had earned him a Distinguished Flying Cross. Flying the "Hump" was risky business, and these pilots suffered a much higher fatality rate than fighter pilots in the European theater; I was lucky to have a dad who survived World War II.

When I returned home in the afternoon, JonBenet and Burke were playing outside with the neighborhood gang. Soon Patsy called for the kids to come in to clean up a little before the party."

[John Ramsey LKL March 27, 2000]2000-03-27: John and Patsy Ramsey guests on LKL Live Show


KING: Did you ever give the police a list of people in the neighborhood you thought were suspects?


P. RAMSEY: They asked us for a list of everyone that had been in our home for the past five years.


[Atlanta 2000 Interviews]2000-08-29: John Ramsey Interview - Atlanta, Georgia - August 29, 2000 (Screen Capture on left is from "CBS 48 Hours Investigates - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

John Ramsey Interview - Atlanta, Georgia - August 29, 2000
Interviewed by: Michael Kane, Bruce Levine, Mitch Morrissey,
Mark Beckner, Tom Wickman, Tom Trujillo and Jane Harmer

Ramsey Representatives Present: Lin Wood, Ollie Gray,
and John San Augustine


10 Q. (By Mr. Levin) It was brought to
11 my attention fairly recently that a woman I
12 believe named Jean Fortier, F-o-r-t-i-e-r, for
13 the reporter, who are the parents of some
14 children who were over your house on
15 Christmas, and they, they, she, excuse me,
16 said that her children reported to her at
17 Christmas day when they went over to play,
18 they played with Burke but that JonBenet did
19 not play because she was sick. I hadn't
20 heard that before. Is that nonsense?
21 A. Absolutely. I don't know who
22 that is, but we had a whole parcel of kids
23 there all day.


2001-12-17: Friends and neighbors of the Ramseys five years later

Inside Denver - December 17, 2001

Jackie Ballard, daughter Amber was JonBenet's friend

JonBenet Ramsey's death still haunts Jackie Ballard's daughter.

"It has changed our lives dramatically," Ballard said. "For the first year, I slept with my bedroom door open. . . . I don't think people realize how crazy it's been."

Five years ago, JonBenet and Amber were jump-rope partners on the playground of the Boulder campus where JonBenet attended High Peaks Elementary and Amber attended a school named Martin Park.

Today, Amber is a 10-year-old looking forward to middle school.

She also feels safer and is even willing to venture into the family basement -- as long as it's not at night.

"It's getting better," Ballard said. "But it's been a long haul."

-- Holly Yettick


[www.globemagazine.com]2002-12-25: I miss my friend JonBenet

The Globe, December 31, 2002
I miss my friend JonBenet
by the pal who says she thinks about her every day

Dear JonBenet,

I have been missing you for six years now, and seeing your face on television and sometimes in the papers. I wish I could talk to you. We had such happy times together - in your pink bedroom, in your garden, all through your house. Although I was a couple of years older than you (your mom being pregnant with Burke when my mom was pregnant with me), I always liked playing with you best. You were funny and smart and liked ice cream as much as I did.

Do you remember how my mom taught us, at the Boulder Salad place, when we were spooning the ice cream into our cones, to tap the cones halfway through to make the ice cream sink so we could get more in? That was the last time we saw each other and it was such a good time. After you were gone, my mother asked if I thought you were missing ice cream. And I said right away, "Mom, there's ice cream in heaven." I hope I was right.

I sure wish you were with me now that we're teenagers. True, you wouldn't be quite 13, but you always seemed older than your years. Even when I knew you, you were never just this little kid running around. You always had plans, some project or other, something to do. I was never bored when I was with you. Now we could be going to the Pearl Street Mall, two blondes together, and beyond hating the blond jokes. (You never got old enough to hate the blond jokes like I did.)

We could hang out on campus and look at what the college girls are wearing. When I was the age you'd be now, there was a big production of The Nutcracker. Sometimes I'd go and watch the rehearsals. You would have been one of the dancers, I bet.

I know you loved Christmas and the Pearl Street Mall is so pretty now with all the lights. There's another mall to go to now, too, as big as a town in itself, with its own streets. I love it when my mom takes me there. You can get everything cool there, like at Abercrombie & Fitch, American Eagle, Polo and Ralph Lauren. At least those are what I like. There's all these new styles. You wouldn't be old enough probably, to start asking your mom if you could have your bellybutton pierced, like I just did. And, of course, she said absolutely not! Maybe you'd say, "Yuck!" Me, too, a couple of years ago. But now it seems OK, even cool. I'm sorry you won't get to feel how your body changes when you get to be a teen. It is really like a miracle.

And, remember how we'd tease your brother all the time?

"Let's go bother Burke," you'd say. And so we would go in his room, where he was playing his Nintendo endlessly and unplug his computer. And then he would say "Heck, I was at the highest level!" And we would run away, go in your bathroom and lock the door, and he would be banging on it and we would be giggling behind it.

I'm so sad that you can't be here to watch your brother grow up and change. Like my brother Matthew was distant for a while and now he's my friend and takes me to his classes at CU sometimes. He's going to be an astrophysicist. I wonder what Burke is doing now.

The last time I saw him we were at Dougie's house and he was so sad and grieving and hardly could talk from missing you. I wanted to hug him, but I couldn't.

That last year you had a pink Christmas tree in your room. There were Christmas trees in every room of your house, all with presents under them, and I was tempted to be jealous because in our house we had only one Christmas tree for everybody.

But I didn't really feel like being jealous because you always shared everything. If there was one cookie left, you would split it and give the biggest half to me. I really loved you for being kind and generous always.

You would have been such a good friend for me now in this kind of difficult time of learning to drive and all that.

Maybe you would have been wanting to go to Boulder High like I do. I'd be telling you about all these neat classes, like my catering class. We learned to make snickerdoodles at first and then we learned how to make a Thanksgiving dinner. And the team sports, I did softball starting last summer and now I'm on the swim team.

You would be great at team sports because you always got along with everybody. You would still be too young for boyfriends (and wouldn't need them!) and we would talk about that stuff. I miss you. You were so funny and always thought of things to do that might tick off the parents.

You would really love the Harry Potter books because they are full of magic. the Harry Potter movies are good, too. And maybe you'd like Eminem's rap music and the movie 8 Mile. And concerts at Chataugua (a local park). And quieter things, like walks at Chataugua at sunrise with the dogs. Some things don't change, like the Boulder Christmas Star, which has been lit for several weeks now, high on the hill that we could see from both our houses. Maybe you are looking at it now from above and at least our eyes can meet there.

I know you loved your life and I loved your life too. And knowing how much you loved yours, I must love mine the more. I will always be thinking of you and hoping that you are having ice cream in heaven. I know you are an angel there and someday i will be with you.

The clouds will be pink like the walls of your room and we will be laughing together and looking forward, and back, and not missing each other anymore.

Love forever,
Your friend, Lindsey

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