Patsy Ramsey Interview August 28, 2000 Atlanta, Georgia (SANTA BEAR DISCUSSION)
2 Q. In December of 1998, there was a
3 fairly well publicized request from the
4 Boulder Police Department for assistance in
5 identifying and perhaps retrieving a Santa
6 Bear. Do you recall that?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Was it your understanding that the
9 bear that was sought was the same bear that
10 you were shown photographs of in 1998 June?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. The same bear that you were
13 unable to identify?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. We collectively, the prosecution
16 team, received from either Mr. Morgan or Mr.
17 Haddon the bear, the bear. Is that your
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. How did we get it? I mean, what
21 was your participation in the chain of events
22 that led to the recovery of that bear?
23 A. The -- well, I think our lawyers
24 asked Gene Matthews, who was a local retired
25 police officer who had helped us with some
1 security at our home --
2 Q. Your home in Atlanta?
3 A. In Atlanta.
4 -- to go through boxes and look
5 for the bear.
6 Q. Did you assist him or is it her?
7 A. It is a him.
8 Q. Okay. Did you assist Mr.
9 Matthews, you personally?
10 A. You mean in digging through boxes?
11 Q. No. In offering suggestions to
12 where to look.
13 A. Well, I believe at that time we
14 were in the throes of a remodeling session,
15 and JonBenet's things that had come out of
16 her room in Colorado were packed and were in
17 the basement at my mother and father's house
18 in Roswell, Georgia.
19 So I told him that is where he
20 should start looking.
21 Q. Mrs. Ramsey, you emphatically
22 denied, in June of 1998, knowledge of that
23 bear. Did you have a change of
24 recollection, following the interviews in
25 1998, as to whether or not you had prior
1 knowledge of that bear?
2 MR. WOOD: Do you know what he
3 is asking you?
4 THE WITNESS: Do I recognize the
6 MR. WOOD: The emphatic part is
7 the only thing that concerns me. I am not
8 denying that it was emphatic, but I think
9 the point is you denied it in June of 1998,
10 and the question I think he is asking you is
11 when you found it, did that jog your
12 recollection that you might remember the
13 bear. Is that what you are asking?
14 MR. LEVIN: That is not quite the
15 question, but it is pretty close.
16 Q. (By Mr. Levin) What I am asking
17 you is, in June of 1998, you stated I do
18 not recognize this bear?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. You recall that. The cry went
21 out for help in locating the origin of the
22 bear. Did you, at some point between our
23 request for assistance and in June of 1998,
24 have an opportunity to rethink the origin of
25 the bear and realize that that was, in fact,
1 JonBenet's Santa Bear?
2 MR. WOOD: I think you meant
3 between your request and December of 1998.
4 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Between June of
5 1998 and our request for help in December of
6 1998 --
7 MR. WOOD: That's right.
8 Q. (By Mr. Levin) -- did your
9 recollection get jogged and you realized that
10 you did, in fact, own the bear?
11 A. No. I mean, it was still a bear
12 that I did not recognize.
13 Q. Have you since that time had
14 anything that has refreshed your recollection
15 in that regard so that you now presently
16 know the source of that bear?
17 A. No.
18 Q. I am going to provide you with
19 some information to see if we can jog your
20 memory. I have seen a videotape taken at a
21 pageant in December, in fact, December 14,
22 1996. I think that was -- was that the
23 last -- I believe that was the last pageant
24 that JonBenet participated in.
25 MR. WOOD: Is that right?
1 Q. (By Mr. Levin) I am asking you
2 if that is your recollection as well.
3 THE WITNESS: Is that the
4 Christmas, one of the Christmas ones down by
5 the --
6 Q. Yes.
7 A. All right.
8 Q. Was that the last formal pageant
9 she participated in?
10 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
11 Q. I have seen a videotape of that.
12 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
13 Q. And in the videotape it shows the
15 A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
16 Q. And that bear is in the videotape
17 with you in the videotape?
18 A. Oh, really?
19 Q. And JonBenet won that bear at
20 that pageant. Assuming that that is a
21 fact --
22 MR. WOOD: And you represent it
23 as fact.
24 MR. LEVIN: I'm representing that
25 it is my belief that that is true, and I
1 have seen videotape that shows what appears
2 to be that bear.
3 MR. WOOD: The question, though,
4 is are you representing it is that bear
5 because there is a difference, and I think
6 you understand it. I haven't seen the
7 videotape that you are referring to, but I
8 mean, you are saying it appears to be.
Patsy Ramsey Interview August 28, 2000 Atlanta, Georgia (SANTA BEAR DISCUSSION)
9 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I would like
10 to see that too because it was my
11 recollection that she won a bear, but it had
12 a little banner on it, and it was like a
13 little angel bear or something. It was all
15 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Assuming that
16 that is correct, that, and, of course,
17 perhaps my observations are incorrect, just
18 assuming that, does that refresh your
19 recollection as to the origin of the Santa
20 Bear that we saw?
21 A. Well, this bear that I think she
22 was presented at that pageant did not have
23 Santa, Santa attire. It was a little angel
24 bear, which I have someplace.
25 Q. And just, I don't want to mislead
1 you because I am trying to jog your memory
2 to see if you can help us out here.
3 A. I appreciate that.
4 Q. And Detective Harmer is the one
5 that came up with the videotape.
6 MR. WOOD: I don't suppose we
7 have it.
8 MS. HARMER: No, I don't have it.
9 THE WITNESS: But it is the one
10 in the Santa outfit?
11 MS. HARMER: Can I --
12 MR. LEVIN: Yeah, because we are
13 trying to get Ms. Ramsey to see if we can
14 jog her memory.
15 MS. HARMER: The person who
16 provided the gifts is LaDonna Graygo.
17 THE WITNESS: All right.
18 MS. HARMER: Is she with All
19 Stars or America? I can't remember which.
20 THE WITNESS: I don't remember
22 MS. HARMER: Whatever pageant she
23 was in on the 14th of December, and LaDonna
24 was involved in it, that is where the bear
25 came from.
1 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.
2 MR. WOOD: According to?
3 THE WITNESS: LaDonna?
4 MS. HARMER: Yes.
5 MR. WOOD: Just so we are clear,
6 we are now talking about two things.
7 MS. HARMER: And the video.
8 MR. WOOD: The video shows a
9 Santa Bear.
10 MS. HARMER: Yes. The video is
11 taken at the same pageant where LaDonna
12 passed out these prizes, one of which was
13 the bear.
14 MR. WOOD: Again, I am just
15 trying to make sure, do you have a video of
16 JonBenet holding or receiving a Santa Bear or
17 are you saying that Santa bears were given
18 out to some of the people there?
19 MS. HARMER: The video shows the
20 Santa Bear on the table.
21 MR. WOOD: Well, the table, who
22 all is in the picture?
23 MR. KANE: Maybe I can clarify
24 it. LaDonna Graygo purchased the bear,
25 purchased the Santa Bear. It was the prize
1 to JonBenet, and she told us the prize that
2 JonBenet was awarded for winning little Ms.
3 Christmas. That was the prize and it was
4 the only bears that she had, and she got it
5 from someplace in Nebraska, a mail order
6 company. I can't remember the name.
7 THE WITNESS: Okay.
8 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Did you look at
9 the bear when it was found by -- what is
10 her name?
11 A. Gene.
12 Q. Gene, or his?
13 MR. LEVIN: Mr. Matthews.
14 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh
16 Q. (By Mr. Kane) You looked at it
17 before it was shipped off to Colorado?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And that didn't ring any bell
20 with you?
21 A. Uh-uh (negative).
22 Q. But you remember getting -- she
23 won a bear at that pageant?
24 A. I thought it was the little white
25 angel bear, but maybe it was, maybe she got
1 that some other time.
2 Q. (By Mr. Levin) If I understand
3 you correctly, Mrs. Ramsey, you do recall, my
4 sense is, and if I am wrong, tell me, you
5 do recall with some degree of certainty she
6 won a bear at that pageant, her last
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And then what I am understanding
10 you to say is, what you are not certain of
11 is the type of bear?
12 MR. WOOD: No, she is not saying
13 she is not certain. She is saying I thought
14 it was the little white angel bear, but
15 maybe she got that some other time.
16 Q. (By Mr. Levin) And I took that
17 to mean that you are not certain that it was
18 the angel bear --
19 A. Or the Santa Bear.
20 Q. -- or the Santa Bear?
21 A. Right.
22 Q. So if I understand you correctly,
23 you are saying that you don't have an
24 independent memory today to state emphatically
25 she didn't win the Santa Bear?
1 A. Right.
2 Q. Did you, when you directed Mr.
3 Matthews where to look for the bear, that
4 is, in the box of things from JonBenet, did
5 you know that that bear had been taken out
6 of the house with your other property? I
7 suppose what I am getting at is, had you
8 been able to go through all of the things
9 that were removed from the Boulder house --
10 A. No.
11 Q. -- prior to December of '98?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Did you go through any of the
14 property at all, if you recall?
15 A. No.