[ACandyRose Logo] A Personal view of the Internet Subculture
Surrounding the JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

This web page is part of a series covering found materials regarding individuals, items or events that apparently became part of what is commonly known as the vortex of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case Christmas night 1996. The webmaster of this site claims no inside official Boulder police information as to who has been interviewed, investigated, the outcome or what information is actually considered official evidence. These pages outline found material which can include but not limited to materials found in books, articles, the Internet, transcripts, depositions, legal documents, Internet discussion forums, graphics or photos, media reports, TV/Radio shows about the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. Found materials are here for historical archive purposes. (www.acandyrose.com - acandyrose@aol.com)
This webpage series is for historical archive and educational purposes on found materials

Pam Paugh
Patsy Ramsey's Sister

JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case
Ramsey Family
Individual Date Reference Key ? Gave Prints Gave Blood Gave Hair Handwriting Got DNA Cleared or Alibi
Pam Paugh
(Victim's Aunt)
PMPT pg73sb Patsy Ramsey's sisters had gone into the house with police permission and taken out an oil painting, several American Girl dolls, a portfolio of JonBenet's pageant photographs, a pageant medal with a blue ribbon, graduation photos of the older children, and a Bible from John Ramsey's desk
John Ramsey testified
Pam Paugh
commented on the White's acting strange in Atlanta
John Ramsey Deposition

News Article
December 1998
--- YES
Palm Print
--- --- --- YES

Investigated by
Steve Thomas
Ron Gosage
at the PD in


[http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/]1998-10-19: Larry King Live "Grand Jury Sifts Through Evidence in JonBenet Ramsey Murder Case"

Larry King: We'll update the case and talk about a recent documentary on the story with a great panel. In Atlanta, Pam Paugh, the younger sister of Patsy Ramsey; and then later in New York, famed forensic scientist, Dr. Henry Lee, commissioner of public safety in Connecticut, and a member of the special task force on the Ramsey case set up by the boulder D.A.; and in Denver, Bill Ritter, Denver district attorney, member of the same task force; Dan Glick, the special correspondent for "Newsweek" magazine, and a consultant on the new documentary; and Lisa Ryckman, correspondent for Rocky Mountain News

KING: when was the last time you saw your niece?
The last time I saw JonBenet was over the Thanksgiving holiday. She had traveled here, not only to be with family for that holiday, but also to attend a small passage here in the Georgia area, representing Colorado

KING: but how did you, the aunt, the sister of the mother, find out?
Well, on the morning of the 26th, I received a very frantic phone call from my mother here in Atlanta. And she asked me to immediately come to her home where she and my father were and I spent that entire day in prayer and very distraught, along with my younger sister and her husband. And later that afternoon, we received the worst phone call of my life. And it was John telling us that JonBenet had been found, and that she had been murdered.

KING: Did you talk to your sister?
I saw Patsy that evening. I immediately left with my younger sister and her husband on a flight to Colorado.
KING: So you flew right from Atlanta out to Boulder.
PAUGH: Yes, we left on a 7:45 flight.

PAUGH: I still believe it was someone who was very close to the inner circle of the family, that they were jealous, that they were envious, and that they were going to bring Mr. and Mrs. John Bennett Ramsey down out of their tower that this mental person had in their mind put them in.

KING: Do you -- I think the "Atlanta Journal Constitution" quoted you as saying that you had three people in mind. You didn't name who they were. You did say earlier, they were someone close. Can you elaborate a little?
PAUGH: Only to say that I think there's probably -- everyone in your viewing audience tonight can think of someone in your life who is not a blood or marriage-related family member, but certainly through contact and through activities and travel and holidays can be considered a part of the extended, close family circle.
KING: And that's where all three of these people are, in your opinion? They're in that extension?
PAUGH: That is the bulk of it. And then there is one that I believe could be even a further extension of that circle.
KING: Did you tell those names to the police?

CALLER: Pam, I just have one question, and that is why did it take them so long to agree to an interview with the police?
KING: Fair question.
PAUGH: Thanks for the question, because that's a point that I would love to address. I don't know what you're defining as "so long," but they discussed fully the day of the 26th of December. They were there all day, being interviewed with investigators, FBI and CBI officials. The next interview took place, I believe, on the 27th, then again on the 28th, because when I returned from going to the home, they were all at the police station. I was the only family member present in Colorado, who wasn't at the police station.

We have cooperated fully since day-one. Now, there did come a point, as I said and talked about earlier, the police were on this -- this plan, if you will, of, "You've got to help us, you've got to help us, you've got to help us." And we were involved 125 percent. We were calling them, saying what's going on? What's going on? And then, when it became evident that they weren't taking anything that was said to heart, and weren't looking anywhere else, at that point, it was like, "Well, you know, if your persecutors are coming straight at you, at some point in time the only logical and smart thing to do is to shut up." So there, again, you have been led to believe that there was no participation, and it is just not true. But thanks for your question.

PAUGH: First, I'd like to make an a comment on what Dr. Lee spoke of and make no mistake, Dr. Lee, I'm not calling your professionalism on the rug at all. But if the media is as accurate in their reporting as some would claim, then perhaps Dr. Lee can shed some light on the issue of foreign DNA that was found under JonBenet's fingernails, not reportedly matching Patsy, John, or Burke. However, the foreign DNA now cannot be used because it was damaged or contaminated during collection time.
KING: Hold it right there. Before you respond, Dr. Lee, has she got a point?
DR. HENRY LEE, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Yes, the DNA, if you have a large amount of foreign DNA, of course, you can say that's coming from a different source. However, if you have a minute amount, there can be any contact during handling the crime scene, somebody carried the body upstair, subsequently moving the body around, so can have a secondary or tertiary transfer (UNINTELLIGIBLE) evidence.
KING: I want to bring our other panelists in. But Pam, quickly, he says the police are still open on this.
PAUGH: Yes. But Larry, let me finish my issue.
My issue with the collection of the evidence was that now it's being reportedly told to me from insiders that the instruments used to collect were not properly sterilized.

PAUGH: I'm not certain that they should have, could have, would have. I think what they should have done is a thorough investigation of all suspects, including Patsy and John. But at the point -- and understand, I mean,
they spent three or four hours with me and an hour and a half of that was trying to determine if I could have done it. But if -- I doubt that they spent that much time with some of the other suspects.

In fact, some of the people have said, "Well, when that interviewed me, they asked me if I had any reason to kill JonBenet, and I said `no,' and so they said, `OK, thank you very much. Can you tell us anything at all bad about Patsy or John Ramsey?'" Well, that is not investigating another suspect.

[Boulder News Forum]1998-12-29: Boulder News Forum thread, "Pam's DNA on Panties"

lindaws - 07:34am Dec 29, 1998 MST

That's right, Pam said on LKL last night that it could very well be her DNA. P.Paugh also admitted that she often slept in the other 'identical' twin bed in JBR's room. Pam said too that 'they*' were at the Ramsey home in Boulder often during the 2 weeks prior to the Christmas Day death of the kid. Folks we have been barking up the wrong tree. John and Patsy are covering for Pam, she is the culprit. No wonder Pam is so adamant that neither John nor Patsy did the dirty deed.

Pam Paugh is really a meanie. If it is true that she knows who 'they' are, the jealous ones who killed the kid, her scenario at least, then why is she allowing this charade to continue? Out with the facts woman, how can she allow her dear sister Patsy and brother in law John to suffer so. Name names, indict, try and punish, easy peasy to wrap this according to Ms. Paugh.

btw, Pam is Jams --- who is'they' ?

texas1 - 12:53pm Dec 29, 1998 MST (#5 of 81)
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen...Winston Churchill

This is what Pam Paugh said about the DNA...She did not say it could be her DNA in the panties.
From the LKL transcript.

PAUGH: "Well, that's a good question. However -- of course we were visiting in the home a lot, and so, yes, my DNA could be on -- I don't know how long DNA lives, and maybe Dr. Lee can answer that, but for instance, I could have a piece of hair fiber, maybe, on the nightstand or something, because I would often sleep in the other twin bed in JonBenet's room. But let me say this: The commingling DNA that does exist has been separated. One of the DNA strands does belong to JonBenet. The other has only been tested, I'm told, against Patsy, John and Burke, of which there is, unequivocally, no match. So, if you then go back and say: How does that play? Well, let's look at where the DNA was found. I am told that it was found on the inside of JonBenet's panties. That, to me, does blow this whole thing wide open, Larry, because we know that it doesn't match Patsy, John, or Burke, and we know that it does include JonBenet's, and it's commingled, meaning some kind of physical contact, not necessarily just caught it in the washing machine or something."

KING: Bill...

PAUGH: "So, whose is it? I am betting my money on the fact that it matches her killer, and that is what we need professional investigators -- Dr. Henry lee, perhaps, to go back and try to say: Who now has motive? And who should be tested against this DNA?"

[WebDollie's Real Audio]1998-12-30: Dave Lucas Radio Show - WROW NY
Hosts: Dave Lucas and Lance Matthews)

Lance Matthews: Hi Pam, eh, somebody out there in Internet land has a question to direct right at you and that was they were wondering the last time you were in Boulder before JonBenet was killed.

Pam Paugh:
The last time I was in Boulder prior to that December would have been, let me think, October 9th through 11th. I was there ah, it was a surprise weekend. John had planned a surprise forth birthday party for Patsy. And my entire family was there. We flew in for it.

Pam Paugh: No not Jameson's, I have never seen her timeline. It will be my personal timeline about activities that happen within the family, with respect to our close family circle, etc. Things that I, at the time I knew there were things that weren't, they weren't acceptable and you brush them off and now of course in light of the fact that JonBenet was murdered, these things as you go back and look upon them they are very telling.

Lance Matthews: Is there anything you can share with the listening audience today that would be revealing more toward your sisters innocents that you are willing to and can share right now.

Pam Paugh: I can tell you that were that on more than one occasions there were snide remarks made about the fact that Patsy must be so perfect that she even beat death. There were snide comments about her exuberance and her beauty. And these were made in a cutting way though. There were comments made about John's money. Although I don't know, they seem to be jealousy comments to me but I am not quite sure that I felt they were jealousy comments at the time but in light of this I think they were..

Pam Paugh: With all due respect to your listeners out there who spend hours and hours in those chat rooms and Timelines or whatever it is called, I don't know the lingo, it is like the old fashion gossip game, depending on who your talking to it goes down forty people and at the end at the forth person the story is totally different than what it began. And it goes from speculation from the first comment that posted to fact at the end. So I don't hold any credence there. What needs to be done is the information that has been gleamed from an evidentiary standpoint and people who where active in this family circle must hold the true keys to unlock this case and only going to the grand jury where those things can be brought up under oath in a factual setting will we be able to get to the end of this case. And my problem has always been this, there was not a full open investigation
because I know on the 28th when I told the police I had concerns about John's plane, please go check the plane, make sure there is no bomb in it, oh we have already done that, you know in fact he won't be going anywhere. Well, if that's is not a statement of John Ramsey had something to do with it what is. So you can't tell me from the 28th to today something between then and now changed. They decided two days later that Patsy and John were involved in this and they have spent two years trying to stick round pegs into square holes and that is why there has been no results to this, that and the fact that the best guy they had to put on it was a street narcotics cop.

Jameson: I think you first talk to me in Aug. and Sept. of this year because me made arrangements..

Pam: and I seen you once in person and talked to you on the phone and that's it and she has mostly called me to clarify things, or you know who was this name or what date did this happen or so forth for accuracy.. um and No she is not related to us in anyway.

Jameson: Thank you

Pam. And I guess I should say here
John doesn't have anybody on a payroll with the exception their legal team and their investigative team and may I say that these people were not hired as a defense team. You don't hire a divorce lawyer to go head up a team to find the killer of your daughter. You hire people who knows the minds of criminals and those by definition would be defense attorneys.. they hired them, the got the investigators and put them all together and as things progressed they have been called the defense them but in no way shape or forum were they hired as a defense team.

[Boulder News Forum]1998-12-31: Boulder News Forum thread,
"EARLY REVIEWS... there is real NEWS here!"

jameson_ - 03:05am Dec 31, 1998 MST (#4 of 20)

Pam "outed" me ????? LOL

Pam told the truth - I am not related to the Ramseys and I do not work for them, or their lawyers, or their investigators.

We talked about my meeting the Ramseys last Spring - but that is on the TimeLine - no secret.

Pam said she and I have talked and met in person. Gee, is that a big surprise? (This happened last Fall)

We visited the cemetary together... surely someone will find a way to show how that proves the Ramseys did this and I am covering for them. God help me, I can't remember if we went dutch when we went to Dunkin' Donuts. I may not only be guilty of accepting a cup of coffee from John but of accepting a donut from his sister-in-law. Such high wages for two years of my life! What a joke...

But wait, I tend to pick up tabs... Maybe I bought HER the donut - Oh my, just what could THAT mean!!

I will tell you that we didn't take any photos of each other at the grave. Personally I find those "grave shots" offensive.

I think the show was a good one. Mrs. Brady, Darnay Hoffman, Andrew Hodges, Gsquared, SueBead, George and Frank from the Albany area, Beanie... they all spoke their minds.

And for once the other side was heard. Linda McLean, Pam Paugh and jameson spoke out.

For myself, I think I am quite done for a while. I had anticipated only doing one show, but certain things prompted me to call in again and I want to thank Matthews and Dave Lucas for the opportunity to speak.

I think that the rumors about jameson and jameson's involvement here have been answered publicly in a manner that should end the continuous speculation on the forums. If posters choose to continue with their insistance that I am a member of the Ramsey family or on some Ramsey payroll, then they are clearly risking being accused of slander or libel.

I received a phone call informing me that there are posts on-line saying I am being investigated by the BPD or DA. I have spoken on these subjects with both of those agencies, long ago. I am not aware that either of these agencies has any desire to speak with me at this point. Once again, the forums are spreading rumors in a wasted effort to discredit me. Are the new rumors an effort to influence new posters or media who might just now be checking in? I wouldn't doubt it... typical forum thing.

Well, it is almost 5 am and I haven't made it to bed yet. I think the show was a good one... hope people really LISTENED and I hope justice is served...


[Webbsleuths Community Forum at www.munitrading.com]1999-01-29: Webbsleuths Community Forum (http://munitrading.com)
on thread titled, "Pam Paugh on Inside Edition?""

"Pam Paugh on Inside Edition?"
Posted by Texas 1 on 19:28:29 1/29/99
Include Original Message on Reply

I heard that Pam spoke on IE, and said that she had known about the bear for some time, and was asked NOT to talk about it. She supposedly said that Patsy, Burke, and some others knew about it, and that there was a note in the bear's pouch....I only have second-hand information from a cyberfriend and DID NOT see the show. HELP from anyone who saw it and can add to what Pam did say?

1. "PD read it and put it back??"
Posted by Afton on 19:36:58 1/29/99
Include Original Message on Reply

This is a new twist. I wish I had seen her say this.

Did the PD who photographed the Bear, see a note sticking out of the pouch, read it and it was nothing that seemed important to him, so he put it back. The Bear at that point was not important either or it would have been booked into evidence. I am sure a lot of her toys were not booked as evidence.

On an earlier thread here, Jams said that Smit met with the DA. I just saw it at the bottom on the page here, but will go back and review the post.

I suspect that Smit called the DA's attention to it as there were red fibers said to be found. There also was dark blue fibers found, but one leak did say red.

2. "replay"
Posted by maxi on 19:54:25 1/29/99
Include Original Message on Reply

Inside Edition replays here at 2 am. I'm going to try to stay up to watch it. I believe Pam said there was a "message" in the pouch. I don't know if a message and a note are always the same thing. It doesn't make sense that Patsy would say she'd never seen the bear if Pam says she knows it had a message in its pouch. The story is getting scrambled somewhere along the line. The police obviously don't have the bear now, or they would post a better photo of it. It's not listed in the evidence list, anyway. I think Patsy may have said that she hadn't seen the bear before it appeared in JonBenet's bedroom.

Maybe Jameson knows if the photo is from the police crime scene photos, or if it was taken before the murder by the Ramseys. My kids liked to line up their toys and photograph them.

8. "For What It's Worth?"
Posted by Texas 1 on 23:25:50 1/29/99
Include Original Message on Reply

Inside Edition is on at 1:00 am in my part of Texas....AND, I was so excited to think I could actually see the REAL thing...I poured a glass of wine, sharpened a pencil, and got ready to take notes to share with all of you! What a disappointment..The show started with "The Little Teddy Bear and the JonBenet Ramsey Case", with her Aunt Pamela on, LIVE...

Well, I tried...Pamela said that the bear was very telling, and it was one of numerous things left behind, and it was obvious that someone put it there. She also said that there was a message in the pouch, but wouldn't tell what it said....The detective that was on the show said that the bear wouldn't fit as a calling card for a serial killer as the ransom note was left behind...But, IF a transcript is available, I hope someone posts it!

I was glad I watched it as I learned that Larry Fortensky, Liz's 7th husband, was in critical condition after a fall down a flight of stairs....And, he had been drinking heavily...How sad....I loved Liz and Larry together....

13. "a death scene?"
Posted by river on 08:13:52 1/30/99
Include Original Message on Reply

This is all very confusing. My understanding from the MSNBC broadcast (Jeryln) was that they don't have the bear, the bear was never a part of JonBenet's belongings, (according to the Ramseys) and the photograph is all police have. Jeryln also said if they had the bear itself, they would have had a much better photo. (and perhaps many more)

If the photograph is all they have, then perhaps, that's all they ever found. Perhaps the photograph of the bear was among the items collected by police, and being a 'photograph of a toy', was not considered very important. Until, at some point, somebody in the immediate family, or someone who worked there was shown the foto, and said it didn't belong to JB.

As to Pam's reporting of a message in the bear, that sounds kind of strange. If they had the bear, then why only one poor photograph? If the DA is seriosuly trying to find the manufacturer, I would think there would be several fotos, with dimensions, fabrics, and other information out there. The only way Pam could know of the message would be if police had the bear. And according to Jeryln, they don't have it.

Personally, I doubt the bear was stolen from the house after the crime. I would assume police were guarding against such things.

Jeryln also reported that it is believed the photograph of the bear was part of a 'death scene'.

18. ""Prophetic message." LOL"
Posted by MaskedMan on 23:39:45 1/30/99
Include Original Message on Reply

Now, the case has come down to a "prophetic" message in a teddy bears pouch! ROFL. It's beyond comical. It's absurd. The teddy bear is MISSING, for chrissakes. Pam Paugh can't possibly know about any message, "prophetic" or otherwise. And yet Debra Norville lapped up every word. What a farce. So much for investigative journalism at Inside Edition...It was shoddy journalism for them to air that preposterous claim without any verification. What's next: sinister fortune cookies?

[Webbsleuths Community Forum at www.munitrading.com]1999-02-01: Webbsleuths Community Forum (http://munitrading.com)
on thread titled, "Pam on Inside Edition"

Pam on Inside Edition
Posted by jameson on 21:54:55 2/01/99
Include Original Message on Reply

Transcript of Inside Edition, Deborah Norville with Pam Paugh:

DN: With us now from Atlanta is Pam Paugh who is JonBenét's aunt. Miss Paugh, why do you think this Santa Claus bear is important?

PP: Well Deborah, I think it's very telling because it's one of the numerous things that were left behind, in the home, after the crime.

DN: What do you mean? How long have you known about this bear?

PP: I've known for quite a while. We were asked not to divulge any information because it could potentially harm the ongoing investigation.

DN: When you say "left behind", what's your theory about this particular bear?

PP: Well, obviously someone put it there. Now, if it was given to JonBenét prior to Christmas, perhaps as a present or whatever, I do not know the details of that. I do know that Patsy, John, Burke, myself, other members of the family, other people who were in the home, they have never seen the bear and do not know how it would have gotten into JonBenét's possession.

DN: Now this bear was found in JonBenét's bedroom. Thomas McKenna, a former New York City homicide detective is also with us. Detective McKenna, what's your theory about this bear and its existance in the home?

TM: It certainly is not a calling card because the person responsible for this LEFT a departing message, that being the ransom note. So if he's trying to bring attention to himself as a "serial killer" or "child molestor" it doesn't fit.

DN: Well, if it doesn't fit that theory then what theory would you, as an experienced investigator provide?

TM: I can't give you a theory of why somebody might bring toys to a child other than maybe to lure them out of where they are with the promise of other toys. But if that is the case, then if the child already was taken from her room, passed through the ground floor, which was where they would leave the house, they would get out of the house. Nobody's going to take a child and have access to getting out of the house and yet take the child downstairs, torture the child and then kill the child. It doesn't make sense.

DN: Miss Paugh, you mentioned this was one of several things left behind. What else has been located in the home?

PP: The incredible thing that we discovered is that there was something very telling left in the pouch and....

DN:....which you will not be able to disclose, is that correct?

PP: I can tell you that it was a message.

DN: A written message? Verbal message?

PP: Wouldn't be verbal, it was not on tape. There was a message to JonBenét left in the pouch.

DN: What did the message say?

PP: I can't fully disclose that at this time.

DN: Was it a threatening message?

PP: It would seem as mere verbage would go - no. But in the light that she was murdered, brutally so. I believe it was the killer's full intent to do that regardless of what was said in the ransom...

DN: Was it a written message? When I say a written message, was it something written down, in handwriting, on a piece of paper?

PP: I can't disclose that either.

DN: Was it something that would relate to her beauty pageant activities?

PP: Absolutely not.

DN: Was there any sexual content to the message?

PP: Absolutely not.

2. "My take on the bear"
Posted by jameson on 22:31:47 2/01/99
Include Original Message on Reply

The bear was not in the house before the murder. Patsy, Burke, Linda the housekeeper, none of them saw it before.

Pam saw it on the bed when she went in the house to take things - on the 28th. She wouldn't handle it or see any note herself. She was there with a cop to get stuff that was on a list she had. She did get the medal from that room so she may have seen the bear onthe bed. I am sure the fact it was a Santa made it stick in Pam's mind - JonBenét wouldn't see another Christmas... you know?

Later the cops photograpaphed it, maybe one handled it, found and read the note or saw whatever was in there, decided it was unimportant, didn't take the doll. (Or maybe he did take it and it was "misplaced". )

The house was packed up - the doll is not there. The boxes have all been checked. So someone either disposed of it, or stole it, right? I heard the house was broke into between the murder and the time the boys moved in. I don't know how many times or if it ever happened before the house was "moved".

The cops didn't want to share evidence with the Ramseys early on. They didn't share any photos with the Ramsey investigators or go over them with the Ramseys - if they had, that doll might have been an issue long before. As it is, it became an issue 18 months later - when they finally DID show their photos to the Ramseys and they noted that they didn't recognize the doll.

SO the doll became an issue - the note, or whatever "message" there was, STILL WAS NOT - not for a little while, anyway.

SO, all I can think is that when the doll became an issue, a cop who handled it remembered the doll, what was in the pouch, told the authorities who asked the Ramseys about it,and that is how Pam heard about it.

I may be off but that is the only theory I can come up with that fits what I have heard.


1999-02-01: A Web site that featured a fuzzy photo of a teddy bear

Updated February 1, 1999
9:24 a.m. ET

BOULDER, Colo. (Court TV) — A Web site that featured a fuzzy photo of a teddy bear found at the scene of JonBenet Ramsey's murder seeking information about has received more than 10,000 visits since it was put up by investigators last week.

In addition to the Web site contacts about the bear, District Attorney Alex Hunter's office had received about 80 e-mails, 105 phone calls and two personal contacts since the site opened Thursday, spokeswoman Suzanne Laurion said Saturday.

And a Denver woman turned over a teddy bear closely resembling the toy found in JonBenet's room around the time she was killed. The toy, a foot-long stuffed bear in a Santa suit, was turned into authorities Friday and could provide a lead in the two-year murder mystery, Hunter's office said.

"It appears it will give us some information," spokeswoman Laurion.

The stuffed animal in the photo was reportedly among toys found in JonBenet's room, but family members said it did not belong to the little girl. The teddy bear is now apparently missing.

The search continues for the actual white bear, dressed in a red jacket, pants and Santa hat. Police photographed it in the Ramsey's home but did not take it as evidence and now it is missing.

It was first seen among the dead 6-year-old's toys, but family members have said it didn't belong to the girl who was found beaten and strangled on Dec. 26, 1996.

Pam Paugh, an aunt of JonBenet, said in an interview Friday that a small brown pouch attached to the bear contained a note.

The note was not alarming, but in view of the circumstances it was both "telling" and "a bit prophetic," Paugh said in an interview with the TV show "Inside Edition." She speculated that the bear may have been used to lure JonBenet out of her room.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

CLICK HERE: Learn more about the Santa Bear Mystery

1999-02-16: Ex-detective: Girl's aunt took evidence

Ex-detective: Girl's aunt took evidence
By Marilyn Robinson
Denver Post Staff Writer

Feb. 17 - Breaking his long-standing silence, a former Boulder detective Tuesday accused JonBenet Ramsey's aunt of taking potential evidence from the Ramsey home the day after the girl was found dead.

Steve Thomas, appearing on ABC television's "Good Morning America,'' said one of JonBenet's aunts left the crime scene with clothes containers, zippered bags and stuffed animals. "So I think there's some questions there,'' he said.

Not so, said Pam Paugh, Patsy Ramsey's sister, speaking from her Georgia home on Tuesday.

"First of all, he wasn't there. Second of all, I went in with a listing of things,'' Paugh said, referring to a list of items she wanted to retrieve. "Every place I went, there was a detective. He was with me. He never left my side. He inspected everything. He selected the bags. He packed everything. I didn't pack anything.''

Paugh said she took clothing, pictures of JonBenet, and some stuffed animals and dolls. She also took a medal JonBenet had won in a talent contest and some beauty pageant banners.

But she didn't take a teddy bear, dressed like Santa Claus, sitting on a bed in JonBeneÚt's room, Paugh said. The district attorney's office last month launched a search for the manufacturer and the retail outlets that sold similar bears.

"I saw the teddy bear on the bed,'' that day she retrieved the items, Paugh said. "I hadn't seen it before. But I didn't touch it, and I didn't take it.''

The former investigator's remarks brought a response from Ramsey attorney Pat Furman.

"Pam Paugh went to the home under police supervision and took some personal items with the complete knowledge and permission of the police,'' Furman said. "If Mr. Thomas is trying to suggest she sneaked evidence out without them knowing, it's ridiculous.''

Thomas couldn't be reached for comment. He reportedly was en route back to Colorado after his TV appearance in New York.

In his TV appearance, he also called for the resignation of Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter, citing the DA's purported dealings with tabloid reporter Jeff Shapiro.

Thomas said Shapiro "ultimately acted in confidential informant capacity to us as a mole inside the district attorney's office with almost unlimited access to the district attorney, which the detectives did not have.''

Thomas said he ended up wearing a concealed microphone to record what Shapiro told detectives about Hunter.

The tapes, Thomas said, "show a series of . . . disclosures to the tabloids, but what was most shocking to us was the district attorney engaged the tabloids in a smear campaign against a police commander, one of Hunter's own cops.''

Thomas alleged that Hunter shared sensitive personnel files and documents with the tabloids to smear Detective Cmdr. John Eller, who later left the department.

"It was so ugly inside this thing and Hunter wanted Eller removed so badly from this case that he resorted to these tactics,'' he said.

Hunter's office has declined to comment on the allegations, reported earlier this week in excerpts from a book on the Ramsey case by Lawrence Schiller.

Thomas resigned from the police department last summer, saying he believed the case had been bungled by the DA's office.

He has signed a contract to write a book about the case.

[Perfect Murder, Perfect Town]1999-02-18: "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, JonBenet and the City of Boulder"
Written by Lawrence Schiller, February 18, 1999

PMPT Page 28

"At around 9:00 that evening, Patsy Ramsey lay down for a nap on an air mattress on the floor at the Fernies' home, while Fleet White and John Ramsey drove to Denver Inter-

PMPT Page 29

national Airport to pick up Ramsey's brother, Jeff, and his friend and broker, Rod Westmoreland. Patsy woke up an hour later. She discovered that her husband wasn't there, and she began to sob, asking anyone near her, "Why did they do this? Why did they do this?" Patsy's sisters, Pam and Polly, just in from Atlanta, arrived at the Fernies' house to find Patsy still on the mattress on the floor. A few minutes later, John arrived with his brother and Westmoreland."


PMPT Page 73

"In the late afternoon of Sunday, December 29, a Lockheed Martin corporate jet left Jefferson County Airport, just south of Boulder, with the Ramsey family. JonBenet's body left on a Delta Airlines flight from Denver International Airport. Two hours later, Fleet White called Detective Arndt and asked her to retrieve JonBenet's favorite toy from her bedroom so the family could bury her with her Kitty.
The day before, one of Patsy Ramsey's sisters had gone into the house with police permission and taken out an oil painting, several American Girl dolls, a portfolio of JonBenet's pageant photographs, a pageant medal with a blue ribbon, graduation photos of the older children, and a Bible from John Ramsey's desk, but she had missed JonBenet's stuffed cat, which Patsy had wanted retrieved."


PMPT Page 124

"On the July Fourth weekend, Patsy entered JonBenet in the Royal Miss pageant in Denver's Sheraton Hotel. Patsy, her sister Pam, and Nedra all attended. During the three-day pageant, Patsy did a lot of socializing with the other mothers. There was a pizza party, a "Your Favorite Star" party, and a party where all the mothers and daughters dressed alike. Tammy Polson, one of the mothers, talked to Nedra, who chatted cheerfully about "her girls." That's how Polson learned that Patsy and her sister Pam had both competed in the Miss America pageant."


PMPT Page 205

"Since January 3, John, Patsy, and Burke Ramsey and Don Paugh and his daughter Pam had all been living in Jay Elowsky's home. Nedra and her daughter Polly would also
PMPT Page 206

friends. At a time when the Ramseys were unable even to set foot in a market to do their own grocery shopping, he offered them the full use of his large home and spent hours talking to John and Patsy."


PMPT Page 236

"JonBenet spent a lot of her time sitting on her bed watching Shirley Temple movies on her VCR. She loved them all. She also loved being in pageants. If she didn't want to go, Patsy didn't make her. Nedra used to bring lots of things for JonBenet to wear. Nedra did most of the pageant planning. JonBenet would have to practice singing and dancing. Nedra and Patsy's sister Pam would decorate JonBenet's shoes, her gloves, put sequins on her hats. Some dresses were made from scratch, but they had fun altering most things. They prepared differently for each pageant. Sometimes it would take a month. They were always reworking something." [Linda Hoffmann-Pugh]


PMPT Page 240

"The CBI had already determined that the stain on JonBenet's underpants-which appeared to be blood and turned out indeed to be blood-was not solely hers. A DlS80 DNA test showed that the stain came from at least two different sources.* [* A DlS80 test is a PCR-based test that measures the genetic marker known as DlS80 on the DNA strand.] After receiving the report, the police contacted the parents of JonBenet's playmates to see if any of the children had ever exchanged clothes with her. Priscilla White said she could not remember her daughter, Daphne, trading clothes with JonBenet, but Daphne told Detectives Arndt and Harmer that she and JonBenet sometimes wore each other's clothes. During their interviews, the police were told that Fleet White had sometimes changed JonBenet's panties.

Months later, Pam Paugh, Patsy's sister, told a TV reporter that she knew White had changed her niece's clothes. The new information meant a lot of follow-up work for the police in the coming weeks."

[jameson's Webbsleuths]1999-10-29: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.org)
"Q&A with Pam Paugh"

"Q&A with Pam Paugh"
Posted by jams on Oct-29-99 at 07:04 PM (EST)

First I would like to share something with you...

From my email...

"I have a CD of the "Cowboys Sweetheart" song. It was a Lynn Anderson recording. At the time I heard the song, I thought JonBenet might like it so I called her on the phone and played the song.....she loved it!!! I sent the CD to patsy, she had an instrumental version made and JonBenet set to work on her new found song!!! I think it was about a year later that LeeAnn Rimes recorded the same song. The original recording artist was an old country ballad singer named Patsy Montana.

You may be interested to know that it was JonBenet who asked ME to find Her a copy(instrumental) of the Xmas song "Rockin around the Xmas Tree" so she could learn that song for her Xmas pageant. I also shopped for and bought an outfit JonBenet had seen and asked me to get for her. Patsy was not involved in many of the decisions regarding the pageants....JonBenet did have her own mind!!!"

I asked Pam if I could share this with you - and she said yes. She also agreed to entertain questions from the group.

So here's your chance.

Some requests from me:

Please don't ask her who she thinks did it - she will not answer anyway.

Please don't ask her to reveal anything that could hurt the investigation.

and please respect the fact that she lost her niece and the family still is suffering.

3 . "post the questions here or email to me."
Posted by jams on Oct-29-99 at 08:17 PM (EST)

post the questions here or email to me. Pam does not want her email address public - she will receive the questions from me via email and I will post the answers for her.

34 . "answers for Kathyk"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:10 PM (EST)

"I also would like to know anything she can tell us about the Santa Bear. Does she definately remember seeing the bear when she went to get stuff from the house, or does she just sort of think she remembers seeing it. Did the cops ever take it into evidence? Is it really missing? - how hard did the Ramseys look for it - could it just be in boxes that were packed up. Do they have the other things that were in the cops picture - like that fancy barbie doll?"

I do remember seeing the Bear on the secondary bed in JonBenet's room on 12/28/96. I do not know where the Bear is now. I am told that the BPD have confirmed the source of the sales point for that model Bear. I wonder if they have subpoenaed sales/shipping records and done a "search of transfer".

Kathy - jams here - I have spoken to someone else in the Ramsey circle who told me that they went through everything looking for the bear and the yellow raincoat - neither has been found. No one knows where they are.

35 . "another answer for Kathyk"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:14 PM (EST)

"Also, does Pam know anything about the dna - is it for sure from 2 people besides JonBenét?"

My understanding of the foreign DNA is that it is a mixture of JonBenet's blood and 1 other individual's DNA in the form of body fluid which was detected in her panties. I am told the fluid is NOT ejaculate. It is also true that the same foreign DNA was found under her fingernails.

Kathyk - jams again - I was told by an investigator that the DNA sample in the panties is strong and "good evidence". If the suspect is tested, the match will "nail him".

40 . "reply for Maikai"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:26 PM (EST)

"*What did JonBenet eat at the White's Christmas night? What kind of mixture of fats, proteins, fiber?"

I was not there....I do not know.

39 . "to Maikai"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:25 PM (EST)

"*When are the Ramsey's going to come out swinging? At what point can they start defending themselves? It sounds like they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't."

I do not foresee any of us coming our "swinging". We are not engaged in defending ourselves when we were not involved. The only thing we are guilty of is loving JonBenet, providing her with a stable and nourishing environment, and establishing a moral and Christian foundation. This does not excuse the onslaught my family has been subjected to. We will not cease the search for her killers!! That is our mission.

33 . "Answer for Spiritrain"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:08 PM (EST)

"Pam, In reference to the question on Dorothy Allison, does the family know anyone with the name Irving or Irvin ?"

Not to my knowledge. Although I understand that psychics often will get variations of names and places and not literal information. Perhaps Ms. Allison could answer this on better than I. Thanks for your support!

44 . "Answer for Spiritrain"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 06:26 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-99 AT 08:21 AM (EST)

"Do you know how long the McReynolds' son was at the house the night of the 23rd when he delivered the gingerbread houses?"

no knowledge.

jameson speaking here... I later got information on this from another source. The McReynolds son did not deliver any gingerbread houses to the Ramsey house that year - the undecorated houses were purchased at Safeway.

The McReynolds son had decorated a gingerbread house in 1994 and Bill McReynolds gave THAT to the Ramseys as a gift.

I am adding stuff to the TimeLine as we learn. :) It is changing - if you haven't read it in a while, you really should.

43 . "Answers for Brimm"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 06:25 PM (EST)

"I am wondering what kind of traveling partner was JonBenet. What did she like to talk about? What kind of things did she like to see? And what were a couple of her dislikes? Tks Brimm"

JonBenet was always in a "seeking mode"...she loved to meet new people, explore new sites, and asked LOTS of questions. She never tired...her little legs could go and go . She found just as much pleasure on Broadway in New York City as she did gliding an inlet cove in an old canoe. She loved to hear adults tell stories. Her wide eyes would glow with excitement as a tale unfolded. She adored family gatherings, her pageants, fresh grapes, holding hands, making up poems and putting them to music. She loved to be held, be with her friends, being read to , hair braided, and to giggle!!! JonBenet loved her life........

She disliked hearing or seeing other people cry. (I can't remember seeing her cry) She did not like to wear shoes much when she was out of doors.

She did not like to hear words of unkindness. Though she did not hear it in her own home, she would quickly tell someone to "be nice" if she suspected they were angry....

She was quite an old soul....I think I learned far more from her than she did from me. Thanks for allowing me to recall some of these fond memories!

42 . "Response to Ashley"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:31 PM (EST)

"I don't have a question; just some comments. I would like to say that Patsy is lucky to have you for a sister and a friend... you are a wonderful sister to her!! I pray that this nightmare ends for your family so that you can get some closure and be able to grieve for your niece the way you should have been allowed to from the beginning! I think it is appalling what the media and police have done to your family. I will never stop praying for true justice for all of you!

Please tell Patsy and John that I CARE SO MUCH! Every time I see them on t.v., my heart actually feels like it will break! It literally HURTS, to see innocent people suffer like this! I can only imagine what they must feel. My prayers and best wishes are with you all, always! Sincerely, Ashley"

Thanks for your kind words Ashley....I have asked myself many times over the past months just "how long with the American public allow this to continue.?"

It seems to me that those who believe as you would organize a public revolt for JonBenet's sake....demanding that Professional Investigators be brought in on the case. Only when this country sees her killers face to face will they recognize what a further injustice Patsy and John has been subjected to.

31 . "Answer for Kathyk"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:04 PM (EST)

"Did any of the Ramseys have an interest in true crime or crime novels and movies. Did any Ramsey see the movies "Ransom" "Speed" or "Dirty Harry" and did they have the book "Mindhunter" by John Douglas"?"

I have no personal knowledge of any of my family members being interested in true crime or crime novels. I have never seen such a book in the homes of family either. As for movies, our viewing was for the most part limited to "family" selections; comedies, Disney, etc.

I personally have never seen the movies you name in your question and I have never read the J.Douglas book, though I am aware of who he is.

27 . "answers"
Posted by jams on Oct-31-99 at 07:30 AM (EST)

I know the Ramseys had not seen the movie Ransom. I asked that and they answered me. John Douglas has said publicly that the Ramseys did NOT have his book in their bedroom - that was a lie.

I can understand people wondering if the parents were into movies - particularly movies on kidnappings, crime, especially those referred to in the note (did they have a tape of In Cold Blood? I would bet that SickPuppy does)

But the Mindhunter thing was first pushed by Boyles, if you remember. I say he is a Media Whore Extraordinaire - loves to point at the Ramseys - and I don't think he gives a damn about the truth or justice. Someone was reading the book and thought it might be good copy (Shari-Faye rhymes with JonBenét, remember??)

Too many pieces of misinformation out there that never seem to go away - even when publicly revealed to be lies. (Boyles dropped it, but the audience remembers it.)

29 . "yes, Violet"
Posted by jams on Oct-31-99 at 10:27 AM (EST)

A rumor repeated three times is taken as fact if it points to the Ramseys.

The question from the top of this thread has been carried to Murphy's forum and this post followed. I intend to add it to those sent to Pam. She may or may not answer, but I think the question might be asked.

Posted by Texas 1 on 23:58:26 10/30/99

"If I could only ask Pam Paugh one question, it would be about the little red heart drawn on JonBenet's left palm. Was that heart there when the Ramseys put JonBenet to bed?"

36 . "Answer for Maikai"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:16 PM (EST)

"Did she go to bed with the pink barbie nightie?"

With or In? On 12/25/96 JonBenet was not wearing the Barbie nightgown. Did she "take it to bed with her"...no.

45 . "Response for River"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 06:29 PM (EST)

"Finally, I've always wondered if there were anyway for an intruder to climb up on the balcony of JonBenet's bedroom, and if so, was there a sliding door to her room from the balcony that might have been left unlocked? Thanks, river"

There was clearly full access to the balcony outside JonBenet's room. Any intruder could have entered from that position. There was also a tree located close by which had several branch extensions giving additional access to the balcony. Her room did not have a sliding glass door, but a regular door leading to the balcony. Oddly enough, when I was in the room, I noticed that this same door had been "secured by obvious means" from the inside. It is a point of investigation and I cannot comment further.

37 . "Answer for Texas"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:18 PM (EST)

"If I could only ask Pam Paugh one question, it would be about the little red heart drawn on JonBenet's left palm. Was that heart there when the Ramseys put JonBenet to bed?"

Since I did not put JonBenet to bed myself I do not have information to answer.

32 . "Answer for Jarbo9"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:05 PM (EST)

"How has Burke faired with all of the attention focused on the family."

Burke has suffered terribly; losing Beth in a car accident and the murder of JonBenet. He remains in the loving embrace of his family and is a fine young man. As his Aunt, I could not be more pleased with the dignity and patience he has shown throughout this ordeal. Thank you for your loving concern for our family!

38 . "Reply to Karebear"
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 05:21 PM (EST)

"Pam, I am always impressed when I see you on Larry King Live. You are so compassionate and intellingent. My question is, if the person or persons you suspect have been named as suspects, why can't/won't you reveal that person/persons identity?"

The persons continue to be on the list or original suspects and are therefore under current investigation. If my feelings are in fact true, it would serve an injustice for these killers to go free because I had "named" them prior to a trial. Please understand that my single focus has always been finding the true killers.

49 . "another answer from off forum question..."
Posted by jameson on Oct-31-99 at 10:49 PM (EST)

Sent her this question from a private email - will share the answer with all of you.

"ask Pam if Santa visited the Ramseys Christmas 1997 & if by chance she knows if they went to JonBenet's gravesite?"

To my knowledge, Santa did not visit our family Christmas of 1997. I have no knowledge of Santa visiting the gravesite at all.

[jameson's Webbsleuths]1999-11-02: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.org)
"Q&A with Pam Paugh 2"

3 . "another answer from email - Amanda"
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-99 at 08:36 AM (EST)

"In email, Amanda asked, "It is obvious your brother in law and sister do not have a normal life what with all this media attention they have to endure,but how about the 3 children ? Are any of them able to have a normal life?"

Melinda is happily married and very dedicated to her profession in nursing. John Andrew continues with his education and Burke is active in sports and music. Thanks for asking!!

9 . "LOTS of answers "
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-99 at 03:04 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-99 AT 09:59 PM (EST)
LAST EDITED ON Nov-02-99 AT 09:33 PM (EST)

*What year did JBR win the Miss Charlevoix pageant?"

JonBenet was born August 1990

She was 4yrs old...almost 5 when the Miss Charlevoix pageant was held.

This would have been July 7 - 9 of 1995, She turned 5 in August of 1995.

I was there. I flew into TCity about 11:30pm the night before.

Mothers were not permitted to attend the rehersals and Patsy told the pageant director that she would not leave her daughter unattended in a high school auditorium without a family member. The director allowed me to attend instead. I sat in a chair all day watching the activities. JonBenet could not see me...but I could see her from my vantage point. If she went behind the stage, I did too! The stage was crawling with "stagehands" who were preparing backdrops, curtains, lights, etc. I was also backstage with JonBenet during the performance. She stood by my side waiting for her turn to go on....I could hardly keep her still...

"Aunt Pam, when is it my turn????!!!!"

I remember one of the ladies/helpers backstage asked me to leave the area and leave JonBenet with her....I said politely, "where she goes, I go".

You see...I have been in theater for years and there are many many areas behind a stage curtain where children can be injured. Wires, ropes, electrical items, props, ladders, hot bulbs, scaffolding, etc....need I say more. I don't think Patsy was ever concerned about the stagehands...these were wonderful men and women giving of their time and talents. But, no one in their right mind would ever leave a child alone in this type of situation.....and we NEVER did.

"*Where was the pageant held? *Was there newspaper coverage at the time?"

Yes, the local Charlevoix paper covered pre and post pageant events.

"*Who (or how many) in Charlevoix knew the Ramsey's would be arriving on the 26th?"

No knowledge....the visit was to meet with John Andrew and Melinda to continue family Christmas...thus the older children were already on a plane the morning of 12/26 when they had to be diverted to Denver...

"*Did John Ramsey belong to the "Chicago Club" there? Any boating clubs?"

John And Patsy have many friends who are members of the Chicago Club. They themselves are members of the Charlevoix Country Club. John primarily used the Irish Boat Works for docking and maintenance, but the only boat club I am aware of is one in GA....the University Yacht Club

"*Did anyone in Charlevoix show a particular interest in the Ramseys---JonBenet?"

Yes, there were people who were fascinated with the dynamics of our life. Most people I observed were quite taken with Patsy and JonBenet both. Keep in mind that we did not then....nor do we now.....live like the rich and famous. We are just everyday people, born of very poor heritage, who happened to have worked hard, lived clean, and are continuing to stand on THE WORD.

"*When did the Ramsey's participate in the local historical group's open tour of homes? Was JonBenet at the home when it was open? Did a lot of people go thru?"

The organizing committee could give you these specifics:

JonBenet was not at home....the entire familys of the tour homes were moved to hotel accommodations during the tour days.

I am told that people bought tickets two and three times to see the house.

Interestingly: that same Christmas, while I was working for Chanel, a man approached me one day who was wearing a COLORADO sweatshirt. We talked and it came to pass that he inquired about the tour of homes and the beautiful little girl in the portrait at the Ramseys....

The police didn't find that odd at all....

"*Why do you think the police used the Coldwater, MI. website to publicize the santa bear? The partyline says they contacted teddybear websites asking them to look at the bear, but there were no hits until after the bear was publicized."

don't know....

5 . "answer to email question"
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-99 at 02:43 PM (EST)

"Could you please find out for me if John Ramsey flew into the Traverse City airport, or the Charlevoix airport. Or both? Also, if Pam could ask them how much time they spent in Traverse City...friends there, etc....all this in connection with 'Michigan Connections' thread."

The Charlevoix airport was used. It is private, whereas, TCity is commercial. Burke has a school friend whose grandparents live in TCity, and I believe there are other acquaintances and friends they may visit from time to time.

6 . "Answer for mousey"
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-99 at 02:46 PM (EST)

"Very curious why the barbie nightgown was found in the basement. If the reports are correct, this was a favorite of JBR's----who would have known that? Why would that particular piece of clothing have been take"

It is my information that this gown was found in a closet....and yes, she was fond of it because it had a Barbie picture on the front which looked like her. My mother purchased it here in GA at a local Kmart. I was with her.

JonBenet did NOT take things to bed with her as security...

I am aware of one woman who hated the nightgown, was terribly jealous of Patsy's life and hated JonBenet's success.....go figure??? The police have been told of this and say it is on NO Concern....yea right.

7 . "WOW _ THIS IS NEWS!!!"
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-99 at 02:49 PM (EST)

"Did the killer bring a Santa Suit in the duffel bag that was found that he changed into--perfect cover and disguise---or did he wear it into the house with the hi-tec boots?"

Excellent question!!! The Ramseys did not own a Santa outfit!!!

14 . "mousey's question answered"
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-99 at 09:52 PM (EST)

"... is there any truth to the rumour that there was a suitcase in the basement containing the nightgown and a Dr. Seuss book? When I heard that one I wondered if the perp had convinced JBR to pack a little bag of her favorite things so she could go on a visit with Santa or some such excuse... I've since assumed that it was just a rumour, but have never confirmed it...."

not true...

15 . "Response to MM"
Posted by jameson on Nov-02-99 at 09:54 PM (EST)

"What has Patsy done to help solve the crime?"

Patsy has been very involved in the quest for finding JonBenet's killers.

Keep in mind that such activities are like double-edged swords; wanting to find facts and yet not wanting to look into the horror of such a killing.

Both she and John have participated fully with the BPD even going so far as to pay for their own psychological profiling at the BPD's request. (which they passed with flying colors) They talk daily with investigators regarding leads and clues which filter in through various ports. Beyond that, I an not at liberty to disclose actual details of their involvement with seeing evidence.

Let me just say this.....what the public has been lead to believe is far from the truth. The media, though they find themselves to be "investigative journalists" have been used as pawns.....throwing the public just enough bloody flesh to make them hungry.

29 . "answers for Maikai - including a wow..."
Posted by jameson on Nov-03-99 at 04:02 PM (EST)

"*Were there any items missing from the Ramsey's home? In other words, did the killer take anything that the Ramsey's are aware of?"

Several items were taken....which I must not mention.

"*Was there a red heart drawn around a newspaper clipping of John Ramsey, and if so, do the Ramsey's know who drew it?"

Yes there was a heart drawn around John's face with "NO" written over his face. And NO they do not know who wrote it.

28 . "answer for Maikai"
Posted by jameson on Nov-03-99 at 03:55 PM (EST)

"The note contains so much hatred and venom----could someone have been so jealous of Patsy they wanted to destroy her? She had had good result with her cancer therapy....everything in her life that Christmas of l996 was positive, and she had so much to look forward to. Some people are aware that there can be a mind/body connection with cancer outcomes. That a terrible trauma can somehow trigger the cancer---just like positive thoughts can cure it."

BINGO!!! I have said this same thing from day one!

30 . "Reply for Bluefire"
Posted by jameson on Nov-03-99 at 04:04 PM (EST)

"Sorry to have you have to aske such aquestion but the following is from an article in the Enquirer, same source as the Barbie nightgown as security blanket story. Does this sound like JonBenét at all? " Hoffmann-Pugh disclosed that JonBenet was terribly embarrassed to be seen naked by anyone, including her daughter Ariana. "If I happened to walk in on her and she had her top off, she'd make a face and quickly fold her arms over her chest and turn away from me," the housekeeper recalled. "It was very clear that she was alarmed and didn't want anyone seeing her chest, even though she was completely undeveloped."

I think this confirms my knowledge that Ariana was not "close" with JonBenet.

for example....even at my age 40. I would not cover myself if my girlfriend of 35 years came in my room.....and eventhough I have spent time in person with Jameson....and I feel comfortable with her, I would cover myself under the same situation.

JonBenet NEVER covered herself when I was with her (with one exception; and the BPD are aware of this and the facts surrounding it).

26 . "She's back!!!"
Posted by jameson on Nov-03-99 at 03:53 PM (EST)

"Question - Was this the Boulder home or Charlevoix?"

Answer - The Boulder home was on the Christmas tour. Not the Charlevoix home.

Although the lakehouse "SummerHill" was supposed to have been photographed for an upcoming edition of Beautiful Homes....at least I recall that as to the magazine making the request.

27 . "answer on the man in the sweatshirt"
Posted by jameson on Nov-03-99 at 03:53 PM (EST)

"What city were you in when this guy approached you? That was Christmas of which year? Which home had he toured when he saw the portrait? Don't you find it strange that he just happened to pick you out, and started talking about the tour of homes and JonBenet's portrait? Did he know you were JonBenet's aunt? What was he shopping for? Did he buy anything? I find it EXTREMELY odd. How old was he? What did he look like? Any kind of an accent to indicate what part of the country he was from?"

Very insightful questions....the police have the answers.

38 . "Answer to Mikie"
Posted by jameson on Nov-04-99 at 03:44 PM (EST)

"I would like Pam to tell us if Patsy ever had anything to do with occult. We know JonBenet once dressed as a witch during Halloween. Is it in any way possible?"

This ideal of the occult is not an option. Our belief in Christ does not allow it.

Patsy did NOT have any connection to the occult. If you consider Mormons a cult, (like some do) then I must tell you here that one of her housekeeping employees was of that particular religion.

However, Patsy and John made no judgments about that.

Yes, JonBenet did dress as a Witch on Halloween one time. She happened to be in Atlanta and asked me where she could find the "prettiest witch" outfit....'

When I asked her why she wanted to be a witch she told me... " everybody always makes a witch look ugly and mean and I want to be different!"

So, I told Patsy of a place I knew of where they sold costume items (I was the spearhead for all of JonBenets and Burkes projects) and she went there and bought this witch outfit. It is my understanding that there were several comments made by a very bitter woman in Boulder about this costume when JonBenet wore it to her school Halloween party.

39 . "Answers for WhyNut"
Posted by jameson on Nov-04-99 at 03:47 PM (EST)

"Did you often, or rarely, see Jonbenet feeling unwell during the time period that Patsy was frequently taking her to see Dr. Beuf?"

I have even taken Her to Dr.Beuff.....and your point would be???

"Linda McLean said in her book that you and your sisters have many cousins, aunts and uncles other than the only cousin who contributed (Debbie). Given how open, friendly, loving and generous to her family and friends that Patsy has been described as being, can you say whether any of these other relatives visited her Georgia, Colorado or Michigan homes? Did any of them attend the family reunions of 1995 or 1996?"


"You have put much of an emphasis on the Christianity of the family, including your own faith and Patsy's. Yet, on CNN recently, you and Valerie Voss were interviewed on-screen at the same time, and you expressed pleasure at talking to her for the first time. Since Valerie said she attended the same church as the Ramseys, and surely you would have encountered long-time friends of your sister's at her church, does this mean that you do not attend the same church as Patsy?"

For an investigative reporter....you have not done your homework.

The church you speak of has currently over 13K members....I primarily was involved with over 4 different singles groups and about 800 members...

I would have had no contact with Voss or her husband. I have met the members of Patsy's and John's Sunday School Class....not necessarily their Bible study group members....just as I am sure they could not tell you they had ever met all the members of the For Singles Only group which I was in. By the way.... I do not currently attend this church and haven't for some time now.


[ACandyRose Internet Subculture Forum]2000-01-01: ACandyRose Internet Subculture Forum
"The "Pam Secret Recordings" Revisited"

From: ACandyRose 1/1/2000 2:25 pm
To: ALL (1 of 21) 847.1

Did the secret recordings that was reported that Matthews was suppose to have done of Pam Paugh and then played to Colfax over the jail phone been shoved under the carpet?

When J.T. Colfax got out of jail on July 13, 1999 he went on the Peter Boyles show a few days later to tell a story about how Pam was secretly recorded.

Here is part of that transcript that was done by Panico at JW on that show:



PB: "And then while he was in jail, JT, writing as Colfax, penned a lot of letters to me and to a lot of other people. But here's the blow, Julie, and we're trying to get ahold of McKinley, Chuck and Charlie and everybody... To know the players, you gotta have a score card. Everybody, I think knows, Patsy and John Ramsey. Patsy Ramsey has a sister named Pam, who I have dubbed Crazy Aunt Pam. Aunt Pam is a woman, for instance, who claims that JonBenet talks to her. And as Chuck Green said, "Well, for God's sakes, ask her who killed her." CAP has been just an amazingly wierd player in the investigation of her sister. Now Julie, batton down your hatches--"


JT: "I think some dentures are going to drop in tea cups now, but... I had been doing an internet thing. My friend who got out of jail started putting my daily postings on the internet. He did a lot of work and everything, but we've had control issues, and I need to separate from this case, so that's why I have to do this so he stops using my name to contact people...my friend Lance Matthews is going to be angry, I'll still call him my friend. He contacts people, he's called PB at home"


JT: "Anyway, he somehow has gotten in contact with Pam Paugh all along while I was in jail there, during the portion when I was on the internet for 9 months. And he surrepticiously recorded her and at her suggestion (he played it to me over the phone) she suggested that he and I go to the Governor's office with information on other inmates as alternative suspects."


Did Pam Paugh ever find out that she was being recorded? Did Jameson, as her good friend inform her of this incident? How come on all the Pam e-mail questions on Jameson's forum that nobody seemed to be concerned about this and asked Pam about it?

Did Jameson tell John and Patsy Ramsey this story during her last visit?

From: ACandyRose 1/1/2000 2:29 pm
To: ALL (2 of 21) 847.2 in reply to 847.1

This was a section of the chat log in IRC where Matthews was being questioned about that secret recording. Did everybody buy this story? This chat log was dated 7-22-99 and was in the #webbsleuths chat room in IRC, that's Jameson's chat room, you know the one that Murphy had accused her of stealing.

Session Close: Thu Jul 22 21:21:47 1999
Session Start: Thu Jul 22 21:22:25 1999
*** Now talking in #webbsleuths
*** Topic is 'JonBenet Ramsey Murder_
' *** Set by ChanServ on Thu Jul 22 18:53:21
-ChanServ- Discussion of the JonBenét Ramsey murder investigation
(matthews) We talked for about 15 secs and she said she couldn't hear (studio phone=recording)....
(August) Mrs Brady said Lance taped pam, but the question is -- did pam know
(Brijette) Wait, I missed the answerto that intriguing question about Pam
(matthews) so I switched phones... later I listenned to the whole 15 secs of Hi and hello and played that to him
*** anthas2 has joined #webbsleuths
(matthews) there is nothing "off" or "revealing" about the tape
(jameson) No - she didn't realize - but we all know when we talk to him at the studio that it may be recorded
(Brijette) yopu better be careful, Matthews, what are the laws in NY concerning wiretapping?
(matthews) she never asked me to "get her info"
(jameson) But I am not defending him for playing it
*** CarolinaG has joined #webbsleuths
(August) so the taping was no big deal at all, of course anything said when calling a radio station might be taped
(matthews) Ny law is that you have to inform people you are recording them
(jameson) he told her he might have info about people partying on the street that night who had not been checked and she suggested he turn that info over to authorities - so what??
(jameson) and as far as it not being the bPD, well, we all know why she wouldn't tell him to call Beckner - LOL
(CarolinaG) sorry came in late
(jameson) talking about Lance recording a conversation they had
(August) so...what about the party on the street that nite? Lance, any more info?
(theneedle) what is the other sister Polly like jameson? I never hear about her
(matthews) don't do THAT Jams...
(jameson) Polly has never spoken out about this - very private person -
(matthews) the entire tape is about 12 secs... and it's just us saying HI
(jameson) All the sisters are close
(CarolinaG) when was it recorded recently?
(jameson) Polly and Pam both support Patsy - Polly has kids she wants to protect
(jameson) not recently
(theneedle) is Pam married?
(jameson) no
(CarolinaG) well what does she say about the party
(violet) So Pam is single and works at the Chanel counter, does she have her own home or does she live with her parents?
(jameson) what does who say? Lance told Pam about it and she suggested he take it tot he governor
(theneedle) she used to work at access though right?
(August) Polly seems to be doing a good job to stay out of the notorioty, I applaud her
(jameson) Pam lives on her own
(jameson) Yes, Polly has avoided all media
(August) I aksed if Lance had any more info about the party? Lance?
(matthews) her house is decorated in old Victorian style... she likes Disney Movies... and she is one of the best people I've met in this whole case
(matthews) that is why J.T.'s irrational broadcast was so fucked up....
(August) I'm hungary for more case news
(jameson) no news soon - no indictment, no news.
(matthews) Case News ----) THERE WILL BE NO INDICTMENT!
(matthews) FACT
(Afton) who told you that lance
(jameson) you just got told Smit and Douglas testified - that is a lot, IMO
(mapek) has matthews met pam at her house?
(jameson) matthews hasn't met Pam that I know of - if he has - please tell me
(mapek) how does matthews know bout her house then?

From: jtcolfax@hotmail.com (JTColfax) 1/4/2000 3:46 pm
To: Samantha (samntha) (9 of 21)
847.9 in reply to 847.8

nopey, nope no..........it HAPPENED...........and
i heard about 3 MINUTES of the conversation before lANCE CUT IT OFF........

2000-03-09: Cybersleuths Forum, Topic:
"Pam Paugh on Fox News - 1:30 pm today"

Member # 6
Member Rated:
posted 03-09-2000 01:50 PM
Pam Paugh is live on the phone on the Fox News channel right now.
She is talking about how heart broken they all are that their friend Alex Hunter has quit as Boulder DA.

She also said that the DA's office told her the "Burke being on the 911 phone call" never happened.

A MUST SEE if you can catch the rerun on Fox News today and tonight!
Posts: 1163 | From: Boulder, Co | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Member # 119
Rate Member
posted 03-09-2000 10:13 PM
Jams over on Another Board disputes Skydog's summary. Let's go to the videotape. Only the first couple of seconds was missed.

P: ...Hunter's fault, and we so often are wanting to find someone to hold at fault. A District Attorney can only work with what he or she is given, and unfortunately in this case it does stem back to the initial investigation. The Boulder Police Department only gave Alex Hunter a one-way road to go down, and clearly the, uh, then they forced his hand on a, um, grand jury, and clearly the grand jury spoke and, but they didn't give him what he needed to bring the perpetrators of this crime to justice.

S: In fact, the grand jury could not speak, because the grand jury decided to return nothing here, to return no indictments, actually...

P: That's correct.

S: ...that decision made, in the end, by the district attorney's office. But it does remain at this point, Ms. Paugh, that the police department will still tell you that there are only two people under the umbrella of suspicion. Yet at the same time John and Patsy Ramsey have come out with a book, and they've named some people whom they think might be possible suspects here, who might have been the people who killed Jonbenet. Your thoughts on those two potential suspects in John and Patsy's minds.

P: Actually, I can tell you that there are several people right now who are heavy suspects, neither of which would include Patsy or John Ramsey...

S: Suspects. Official suspects?

P: Um, I would say they're official, in my mind and in an official capacity I know they are being heavily investigated.

S: Well, the police department and the district attorney's office will tell us, officially, that there are no official suspects and that the only ones under that umbrella of suspicion are John and Patsy Ramsey themselves. There's certainly a number of inconsistencies, and I don't want to beat an old horse further than it's already been beaten, Pam, but you must understand that a lot of people who are watching now think that what happened inside that house on that Christmas night happened because one or both of the parents made it happen.

P: Well, they haven't seen the evidence that I've seen, then. And, of course, I can't talk about a lot of that. But just say that we are working, we do have suspects, they are being heavily investigated, and I would doubt the police are involved in it.

S: Pam, through all of this one of the things that may have been left out is young Burke. He's moved to the East Coast. How is he? Jonbenet's brother?

P: How is he? He's healthy, he's a young teenager and he's living a teenage life.

S: He's been through a lot over the past few years.

P: Well certainly we all have.

S: Uh-huh. I'm sorry, the phone broke up there for a...

P: I'm sorry. I said certainly he has, as have we all.

S: Well, you know, even to this day, we still get flooded, Pam, with, with all sorts of e-mail about this case. As you might know, there are a million experts out there, people who have followed it as closely as they can, from Denver to Boulder and all across the country and around the world, for that matter. There are a lot of people who believe that there's only one reason that, in fact, nobody's been put in jail for this, and that's because there were so many mistakes in the early on that police just could not get to the people whom they needed to get to. And so many point out that this ransom note is clearly, according to at least one expert, the work of Patsy Ramsey.

P: Well, that's just a falsehood. As we all know by now, or should have learned by now, handwriting analysis is not a science, it cannot really prove anything other than, I think, the one thing that it did prove, that whoever wrote that had a lot of time and was venting.

S: It can certainly eliminate some people, just as a lie detector test cannot be used in most courtrooms, neither can handwriting analysis in many cases, but it certainly does allow you to eliminate a lot of people, and not eliminated by their work was Patsy Ramsey.

P: Well, about the only reason why, and I have seen the analysis of that, the strongest reason why, Shepard, was because it had a feminine flair to it. Um, now, does that mean it was a man with an effeminate tendency in his writing, or was it clearly written by a woman? I mean, these are questions that can only be answered when you find the actual perpetrators of the crime, and then you, as Lou Smit would say, unravel backwards and find out then how that fits into the handwriting.

S: You know, Pam, one of the, and I don't want to go through the evidence piecemeal, but one of the other things that's really always kind of stood out for me is this issue of Burke's voice in the back of a 911 call that, after the parents had said he was asleep, that never has been explained. Do you know, do you have an explanation?

P: All I know is I was told by the DA's office that that, in fact, was not the case.

S: Hmm.

P: So that's the only, I, I've never heard it, so I don't know.

S: Pam, when you look back on this, do you think that there will come a time when there'll be justice for Jonbenet?

P: Absolutely.

S: Pam Paugh, on the phone with us from Atlanta, Georgia. Pam, greatly appreciate it, and she joins us on the wake of information from District Attorney Alex Hunter in the city of Boulder, who says that after 28 years as the DA there, he will not be running again.
Posts: 20 | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

[Death of Innocence]2000-03-18: “Death of Innocence” written by John and Patsy Ramsey

DOI Page 11

"Eventually, arrangements were made for Pam Paugh, Patsy's younger sister, to go back to the house under police supervision and get a few things we needed. She would be allowed to stand at the door of a room and point at the items. Then the police would carefully catalog these possessions and deliver them to her."

"Most of the items Patsy wanted were in a curio cabinet of keepsakes in our bedroom. Treasures from over the years filled the cabinet: Our children's first shoes, a christening gown Patsy had made for both of the children, baby teeth, JonBenet's baby locks, Patsy's baby shoes, and my baby rattle. Patsy particularly wanted Pam to get the My Twinn doll from under the Christmas tree and the pictures of the kids she kept on the sink in her bathroom."

"After gathering up what we had asked for, Pam was getting ready to leave when she had a feeling that something important had been missed. She asked to go back to JonBenet's room, and as she stood in the doorway, her attention was drawn to a seemingly insignificant gold medallion that JonBenet had won in the recent All-Stars Christmas Pageant, her last competition. The round medallion had been placed around her neck as the overall winner of the talent competition"

[JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation]2000-04-11: “JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation”
by Steve Thomas and Don Davis, April 11, 2000

ST Page 51

"Patrol Officer Angie Chromiak told me later that when she showed up to pull a security shift at Tin Cup circle, she was ordered by police headquarters to ferry Pam Paugh over to fifteenth Street to collect some clothing that John, Patsy, and Burke Ramsey could war to the funeral. Even that decision, as kind as it might have been to grieving parents, was questionable, for nothing should be removed from an active crime scene."

ST Page 52

"She spent an hour on her first trip through the crime scene and emerged with a big cardboard box filled to the brim, which she plopped into the trunk of the police car. For the next several hours, Pam made about half a dozen trips through the bouse, often spending an hour or more inside, and hauled out suitcases, boxes, bags, and loose items until the backseat of the police car was stuffed like a steamer trunk."

"Pam's last trip was into the bedroom of JonBenet, and she pumped herself up again; "I can do this, I can do this, I can do this." She came back carrying an armload of stuffed animals and other items from the first room in the house to have been sealed off by police."

"Everett kept only a general inventory of what was removed, and even that abbreviated listing was astonishing.
Stuffed animals, tiaras, three dresses for JonBenet, pageant photo portfolios, toys and clothes for Burke, John Ramsey's Daytime, the desk Bible, and clothing. For Patsy, there were black pants, dress suits, boots, and the contents of the curio cabinet. Bills, credit cards, a black cashmere trench coat, jewelry that included her grandmother's ring and an emerald necklace, bathrobes, a cell phone, personal papers, bank records, Christmas stockings, her Nordstrom's credit card, and even their passports. The patrol car was loaded with zipped bags, boxes, sacks, and luggage, the true contents unknown."

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