[ACandyRose Logo] A Personal view of the Internet Subculture
Surrounding the JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

This web page is part of a series covering found materials regarding individuals, items or events that apparently became part of what is commonly known as the vortex of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case Christmas night 1996. The webmaster of this site claims no inside official Boulder police information as to who has been interviewed, investigated, the outcome or what information is actually considered official evidence. These pages outline found material which can include but not limited to materials found in books, articles, the Internet, transcripts, depositions, legal documents, Internet discussion forums, graphics or photos, media reports, TV/Radio shows about the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. Found materials are here for historical archive purposes. (www.acandyrose.com - acandyrose@aol.com)
This webpage series is for historical archive and educational purposes on found materials

[JonBenet Ramsey's Trophys]
JonBenet'e Trophys

JonBenet Ramsey Pageants


CLICK HERE: Visit the JonBenet Photo Timeline



Dear Friends & Family,


"JonBenet too had a busy summer in Charlevoix. She was crowned Little Miss Charlevoix in a pageant in June and spent the rest of the summer riding in convertibles in various home-town parades throughout Michigan. She performed a patriotic tap & song for her talent. She and Burke both won ribbons in several decorated bicycle contests. In October, JonBenet become Little Miss Colorado, she rode on the "Good Ship Lollipop" float during the Boulder Christmas parade. (Grandpa Paugh built the float!) She waved and sang all along the parade route! She also takes piano, violin, and drama classes. Busy little Pre-kindergartener![sic] (Busy Mom hauling her around!)"


Please come see us in 1996! Love to you all!

The Ramseys



Dear Friends & Family,


"JonBenet is enjoying her first year in 'real school.' Kindergarten in the Core Knowledge program is fast paced and five full days a week. She has already been moved ahead to first grade math. She continues to enjoy participating in talent and modeling pageants. She was named "America's Royale Tiny Miss" last summer and is Colorado's Little Miss Christmas. Her teacher says she is so outgoing that she will never have trouble delivering an oral book report!"


Merry Christmas and much love,
The Ramseys


[Newsweek Magazine, January 13, 1997 'A BODY IN THE BASEMENT']1997-01-13: "Newsweek Magazine, January 13, 1997 "A BODY IN THE BASEMENT"
(by Mark Peyser, Sherry Keene-Osborn, Daniel Glick in Boulder, Daniel Pedersen in Atlanta)

"Even in the sometimes vicious world of junior beauty pageants, the Ramseys were considered caring parents. But JonBenet-the 1995 Little Miss Colorado and the reighning America's Little Royal Miss-did inspire jeanlousy. "Several mothers told me that when JonBenet competed, they would take their daughters out of competition because they knew their girls would not win," says Eleanor Von Duyke, who runs the Show Biz USA circut of pageants. And the Ramseys reveled in their daughter's career. Patsy Ramsey regularly had her kindergartner's hair lightened at a beauty salon. Her parents submitted JonBenet's photo for the February issue of 'Babette's Pageants and Talent Gazette,' a popular magazine for contestants' families. After the murder, publisher Buffie Davenport says she contacted the family to make sure they still wanted to the photo to run. They said yes"

[Newsweek Magazine, January 20, 1997 'The Strange World of JonBenet']1997-01-20: Newsweek Magazine, January 20, 1997 "The Strange World of JonBenet"
(by Jerry Adler, with Sherry Keene-Osborne, Mark Miller and Daniel Glick in Boulder, Ginny Carroll in Lujkin, Texas, Daniel McGinn in Charlevoix, Mich., Daniel Pedersen and Vern E. Smith in Atlanta and Anne Belli Gesagman in Houston)

(Page 44): "Not long before she was killed, she was chosen for the cover of the spring issue of 'Babette Talent Gazette,' one of the several bibles of the pageant world. Publisher Buffie Davenport described her as 'a natural, a real dynamo...the up-and-coming 100 would could win the cars and the cash." The picture will appear, as scheduled, next month."

(Page 44-45): "We're not looking for the little girl who is all made up in a frilly dress," said Dolly Abbey of Traverse City, Michigan., who was executive director of the Little Miss Charlevoix pageant when JonBenet won in 1995, beating out a field of two other 4-year-olds. "We're looking for what's inside the person, not for beauty. We shy away completely from the other kind of pageant." "We tried to take the good we saw in the world of pageants and eliminate the bad," says Wayne Dolan, who with his wife, Susie, runs Denver's Royal Miss competitions. "Our pageant system promotes self-confidence and self-esteem. I've seen kids win in $60 dresses and I've seen kids win in $600 dresses"

1997-01-20: Time Magazine: "PLAYING AT PAGEANTS" by Elizabeth Gleick

Page 1

"JonBenet was a veteran of dozens of contests, a confident and adorable pixie who kept scrapbooks documenting her pageant appearances. Those who saw her perform say she was a force to be reckoned with. "She was such a natural," says LaDonna Griego, director of the Colorado program for the All Star Kids organization, based in Dallas. "But she was untouched by it. When JonBenet won, she was just as giddy as the first time, and she was just as happy, it seemed, to be an alternate. At the Christmas pageant, she sat there and just said to herself, 'Please call my name.' When they called it, her face lit up.

For JonBenet and her mother, Patricia Ramsey, a former Miss West Virginia, the contests may have been good fun. For pageant organizers, they often mean big bucks. Throughout the country, especially in California and the South, a complex network of pageant systems, as they are called, make up the circuit, with pageants sponsored by the likes of Hawaiian Tropic and Beauty Unlimited held in shopping malls and hotel ballrooms. According to Ted Cohen, editor of the International Directory of Pageants, there are about 3,000 pageants a year in the U.S., 500 of which cater to the preteen-and-under set. Children could compete every weekend, if they and their parents had the energy and resources. "There's a new pageant popping up all the time," says V. J. LaCour, publisher of Pageant Life, a Sacramento quarterly with a circulation of 60,000. "The reason for their existence is money. If the pageant makes a profit, it will continue. If not, it's gone tomorrow." Cohen says organizers of the larger statewide contests clear at least $100,000 per pageant.

Page 3

There is certainly no evidence that JonBenet was performing against her will--and judges say it is alarmingly obvious when a child does not want to be onstage. Indeed, those who saw JonBenet compete say the child was a natural--spirited and spontaneous. One of the events JonBenet was preparing for before her murder was sponsored by Amerikids, a nonprofit youth development group based in Denver. JonBenet and nine other girls ages five to 18 planned to dance next month at the local Ronald McDonald charity ball. "JonBenet and her mother were here every week to practice," says Suzie Dolan, the event's organizer. "They dedicated a lot of time to the performing group, but it's not what you see on TV--the pageant stuff. People need to know that what you see on TV is not what JonBenet was like. It wasn't just beauty stuff. She was just a regular kid. She wanted to be an Olympic skater. She loved the interaction with the other girls."

[People Magazine, January 20, 1997 'Murder of a Little Beauty']1997-01-20: People Magazine, 'Murder of a Little Beauty' 'Lost Innocence'
(by Bill Hewitt)

(Page 41): "That view was echoed by those who had only passing contact with the Ramseys. Photographer Randy Simons, who spent a day shooting a portfolio of JonBenet last June, recalls being struck by the uncommong devotion between mother and child. "Patsy was your normal mom who absolutely loved her kid," says Simons. "She had the opportunity to spend a huge amount of time with JonBenet, and they were just really close." To his eyes, they were, "the perfect mother and the perfect daughter."

(Page 42): "Over the past year, the Ramseys had hired photographer Simons, arranged for a model trainer from Florida and taken JonBenet to more than one out-of-state competition.

There was one video that showed JonBenet, who had won a half-dozen pageants, including a 1995 Little Miss Colorado title and a 1996 America's Royal Miss title, dancing in flirtatious--even provacative--fashion." Photographs also surfaced of her in heavy makeup more suited to a woman at least three times her age. "It's impossible to look at these photos and not see a terribly exploited little girl," Denver Chief Deputy District Attorney Karen Steinhauser told reporters. "You get this incomfortable, sad feeling that she didn't get the chance to be a normal 6-year-old kid." Yet friends of the Ramseys insist that Patsy was anything but a domineering stage mother. "She was not like some of the mothers who are so competitive," says Diane Hayes, a Colorado Springs mother who met the Ramseys through pageants. "Patsy really wanted JonBenet to have fun with it, and she did."

At the same time, some aquaintances wonder if all the attention lavished on JonBenet, however innocent and well meaning, hadn't left brother Burke feeling slightly left out. One neighbor recalls that JonBenet seemed to get all the attention. "Hers was the name one hard all the time, " says the woman. "I don't think Burke ever got much of a reference." Simons recalls Patsy telling him of JonBenet, "This is not just my daughter, this is my best friend."

[Boulder News Forum]1997-01-26: Boulder News Forum thread, "RAMSEY-SUNDAY #1"

DATE: Sunday January 26, 1997

In one of the magazines I saw JonBenet's official autograph on one of the programs for the pageant or something like that and it was a childish scrawl similar to one that would be written by any other kindergarten students...oversized letters, etc....and it made me realize that there was just a little girl in those elaborate costumes, looking so mature and confident, just a little girl who could not handle a pencil very well. She could not handle a pencil very well but she was walking around on a stage balancing a strange assortment of feathers, train, headdress, etc. How uncomfortable that must have been. The photographer said she seemed overly tired and weary of wearing the costume. Of course, she would be tired. She may have been precocious, but she was after all, just a little girl. Not Marilyn Monroe, not a Vegas showgirl, not a super model...just a little girl. There is a book that was written several years ago about the tendency of Baby Boomer parents to push their children into adult behaviors. It is called "The Hurried Child" and it applies to JonBenet so perfectly. This all makes me so very, very sad.

[Boulder News Forum]1997-02-01: Boulder News Forum thread, "RAMSEY SAT #1"

DATE: Saturday February 01, 1997

Pageant Teen from Missouri...I too am from Missouri and questioned the comment about no losses. I don't know anyone in pageants who have never lost unless they got lucky on the first and quit. Thanks for your comments JayD...Mommy Dearest claims to be from Missouri. I have called some people and the only national pageant that JB apparently did not win was Sunburst and that age group was not won by someone from Missouri. I think she definately sounded like a disgruntled loser instead of winner.

1997-03-20: Hospital nervous about ties to JonBenet-related pageant
Hospital nervous about ties to JonBenet-related pageant
JonBenet haunts pageant
By Bill Briggs
Denver Post Staff Writer

March 20 - She won the pageant last year. Next week, the show will go on without its defending beauty queen, JonBenet Ramsey.

"This is the first event that we've had since we lost JonBenet," said pageant organizer Suzi Doland. "You have to start the healing process somewhere. We feel like this is a good way to begin."

Presented by America's Royale Miss, the March 29 event at the Northglenn Recreation Center is being billed as a "charitable pageant event." Winners move on to a national competition. All proceeds are slated to go to the JonBenet Ramsey Children's Hospital Fund.

"We thought, 'What a wonderful way for the children to get involved and raise money for Children's Hospital and of course for JonBenet's memory,' " Doland said.

But controversy arose Wednesday when Children's Hospital said it wanted no part of the pageant because organizers have not received authorization from the Ramsey family.

"We are rescinding this. We are not participating in the fund-raising. We are not accepting any money," said Jackie Brown-Griggs, spokeswoman for Children's Hospital.

But Doland, a friend of Patsy Ramsey's, said she's been unable to reach the Ramseys for months, despite sending cards and flowers.

Her husband, Wayne Doland, said "it sounds like they (Children's Hospital) don't want any type of affiliation with our organization because of the stigma of pageants now. It hurts my feelings to be honest with you." Children's officials also acknowledged they are examining the propriety of the hospital's overall ties to the JonBenet fund.

The JonBenet Ramsey Children's Hospital Fund - set up by "friends of the Ramsey family" - funnels its donations to the Child Advocacy and Protection Team at Children's Hospital. (TV talk show host Geraldo Rivera reportedly donated $5,000 to the JonBenet fund.)

The team is the region's only force of "specially trained professionals who can detect and treat abused children sometimes the instant they come through the door," according to a Children's Hospital press release.

Meanwhile, the pageant will go on next week. A pageant flier says the event will offer talent and beauty competitions for "babies and young ladies of all ages."

JonBenet Ramsey was found murdered in the basement of her parents' Boulder home the day after Christmas. She had been strangled with a crude garrote. An autopsy revealed she also had been sexually assaulted and her skull fractured.

"We don't have any closure. We don't have anything to go on," Suzi Doland said. "We still have an unresolved murder, but this way we have a starting point again for the kids and their families.''

The writer can be reached at living@denverpost.com.

1997-03-30: Pageant pays tribute to JonBenet

Pageant pays tribute to JonBenet
Media on hand to view formerly obscure contest
By Michael Romano
Rocky Mountain News Medical Writer

Jenilee Jewert, 15, wore a purple prom dress, a shiny tiara and a radiant smile as she strode across the stage Saturday at the Northglenn Recreation Center.

Jewert was one of about 30 girls -- from toddlers to teens -- who participated in a local beauty pageant that was all but anonymous until the brutal slaying of one of last year's winners, 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey.

"It's difficult to do this without JonBenet,'' Jewert, a freshman at Northglenn High School, said before the competition. "But it's nice to be with my friends again.''

Last year, when little JonBenet claimed two crowns in her age category in this preliminary competition, the America's Royale Miss Pageant barely earned a mention in community weeklies.

On Saturday, reporters buttonholed parents and contestants, and five camera crews formed a phalanx at the back of the auditorium to film a dance tribute to the little Boulder girl whose death remains a mystery three months after her slaying one day after Christmas.

"It's not that we want the media -- this is for the families,'' said Tammi Vigil, the mother of one contestant.

Suzi Doland, who has organized the America's Royale Miss Pageant for about a decade with her husband, Wayne, said, "I've had a few people cancel because of all the media coverage.''

Doland called JonBenet "our angel'' as she broke down in tears during a brief tribute that took place moments before she asked film crews to leave the auditorium. Net proceeds from the pageant -- estimated at about $500 -- will be donated to Children's Hospital in memory of JonBenet.

"She was a beautiful, intelligent girl,'' said Vigil, whose 9-year-old daughter, Brandilynn, was one of JonBenet's friends. "It's tough for all of us to be here.''

Adam Robles, a Wyoming resident, said his 6-year-old daughter, Jordan, couldn't bear to discuss the tragedy but wanted to compete in the pageant just the same. Like the other girls, she took home a pin to remember her friend JonBenet.

Since JonBenet's death, photos and videotapes depicting her in precocious clothes and heavy makeup have cast a negative aura over beauty pageants for young children. But parents of contestants rejected that notion.

"People should not judge these based on what they've seen on TV,'' Vigil said. "This really is for the kids. This is healthy.''

Outside the recreation center, a lone protester who disagreed with Vigil waved a placard that proclaimed: "Let little girls be little girls -- no more JonBenets.''

March 30, 1997

1997-04-30: Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo

Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Steve Thomas, Tom Trujillo
Also present, Pat Burke, Bryan Morgan, Pete Hoffstrom, Jon Foster
April 30, 1997 - Boulder, Colorado

TT: On the pageants a little bit, about how many pageants was JonBenet in?
PR: Ah, I was trying to think of that the other night. The best I can remember, about eight or ten, total I think. I mean, we, you know, it wasn’t, I mean we, it was just last year about this time that we were getting all of our clothes together.
TT: So she just started…
PR: It wasn’t, she had done a little in Charlevoix when she was 4, and she was, that would have been the summer before last. And then we did one, and we really, I don’t think, oh let’s see she did one, we just started in the spring I think, because I just started learning about these in Colorado like in March of last year.
TT: OK. In going to these eight or ten pageants, you notice anybody that was, and not only just towards JonBenet, but in general, notice anybody that was odd or out of the ordinary, anybody like that?
PR: Well, they were, I mean it was just pageants and things of the (inaudible). I mean I never noticed anybody, cause some of the same people sort of showed up at all of them.
TT: (Inaudible) the circuit or whatever?
PR: Right. I mean they were sponsored by different people, buy, you know, generally sort of the same girls went to these, and just, you know, parents. John didn’t go to all of them because he kind of take, it was a Sunday afternoon kind of thing. She and I would go do that, and he and Burke would go fly or something, and maybe they’d come toward the end and watch the crowning, you know. But it really wasn’t too much of a dad thing, but there were, you know, some dads there.
TT: No one though that as being kind of odd or out of place or…
PR: No, no.

TT: OK. I know JonBenet has quite a few photographs, some of them the professionally done ones. Do you have anybody that did most of her portraits?
PR: Well, just two fellows. One was this David Haskel in Denver. And I met him because I had been asked to go have a photograph made by him for the Colorado Women’s (inaudible) newspaper that, Debbie, Debra and Rosenberger is the editor, here in Boulder. So she took me down there one day, and I had my picture made and so then, you know, I like him and everybody down there. And actually the makeup artist down there was who told me that her little girls had done pageants. I said well, you know, where do you know about these, and she called and gave me names that day.
TT: So David was the photographer before the pageants got started before the pageant circuits started up?
PR: Right. He was taking pictures of me for the Colorado Women’s News or whatever the name of it.
TT: OK. About how many photographs did David do, about? Did he photograph at all?
PR: Yeah, then I went down, I know at least twice, and had pictures made of her.
TT: And those were glamour shot ones. Were they, what kind of portraits were they?
PR: Well, they, he did. I mean, we took, he said bring a bunch of different clothes. So we bought costumes, blue jeans, ah
TT: He did a whole portfolio.
PR: A bunch of stuff, yeah. And then he really had done most of them, but they all kind of looked alike, you know, the ones that he would do. So, I got the name of this other fellow, Randy Simon, who did this pageant pictures frequently. And so I called him at the last minute before we went to Michigan last year, and he had some time available. So, we went out a day with him, and he did a whole bunch of them too. He did some in the studio and then did some, we went to different places around.
TT: OK. Were these still the glamour shot type stuff, or are they portrait studio type?
PR: Well, I don’t know what you mean by glamour shot, I mean, they call them character shots, like one was Little Red Ridinghood and one was in a little sun dress, and one was bare foot, you know those fun things. And then there was some in the studios like a model, those kinds of things.

TT: Any professional photographs of Burke done?
PR: No. I mean, we had family pictures taken, but he, but these were just for the pageant things because they would have, they had categories that you entered. For photogenic or whatever. So those were specifically taken for those.
TT: Who was the family photographer? Did the family photograph do JonBenet and Burke?
PR: We went for a while to a fellow named Willis. I can’t remember his last name, but he as at Better in Light Photography. And he’d usually take a Christmas picture. And then I started going to Moto Photo there in, down in Deckens (inaudible).
PR: They did a Christmas one and Easter one, had a little Easter bunny (inaudible).
TT: OK. Any, did you get one, was there one photographer, Joe Moto, or was it just PR: I think there was a woman, a tall woman. I think there was, those were (inaudible) pin-ups, kind of like all males or something that was there.

TT: To see what was available. OK. On one of JonBenet’s (inaudible), you do like a pageant resume, is that right? Or, I don’t know if that resume is the right word.
PR: Like an entry form or something?
TT: Yeah, entry form or something that kind of tell people about, who JonBenet, what her likes are?
PR: Yeah. You write down that, like what’s their hobbies.
TT: Right. And on of those had something about a kitty game, that was her favorite game. You remember what that’s about?
PR: Kitty?
TT: Yeah.
PR: To play kitty. Yeah, she likes to play kitty (inaudible).
TT: Uh.
PR: You don’t like kitty huh. She and Daphne like to, they love kittens. And we had some kittens up at the lake (inaudible). And she and Daphne like to pretend they were kittens. She’s just, they would walk around and they would say, oh there’s a kitty, (inaudible). Let’s go into the pet shop, I think I’ll buy this one.
TT: And that’s the game JonBenet really like or something?
PR: She and Daphne played kitty. They’d walk around on all fours, you know.

[People Magazine, October 6, 1997]People Magazine, October 6, 1997, 'Mom and Dad Under Suspicion'
(by Richard Jerome, Vickie Bane in Boulder, Sara Gay Dammann in Charlevoix, Fannie Weinstein and Gail Wescott in Atlanta, Jennifer Mendelsohn in Parkersburg, Margie Bonnett Sellinger in Washington and Sue Miller in New York City)

(Page 99): "For Bostonians June Reidlinger and Richard Shibley, August 7 was one of those days when life turns ineffably strange. The couple had planned to rendezvous in the resort community of Charlevoix, Mich. then ferry out to go camping on Beaver Island, But as Reidlinger approached town, a truck rammed her van; almost instantly a woman from a nearby house arrived on the scene, offering to help."

"With clockwork efficiency, Patricia Paugh Ramsey took charge; She unloaded Reidlinger's camping gear and drove it to the ferry, brought Shibley to her Victorian summer home, then took Reidlinger out for hamburgers. While at the Ramsey house, Shibley, a computer consultant, encountered Patsy's mother, Nedra Paugh. "She asked, 'Do you know who my granddaughter was:?" he recalls. "Then she told me it was JonBenet Ramsey and asked, 'Do you want to see her room?"

"Uneasily, Shibley trailed upstairs to behold the dead child's "canopy bed and the small pillow with her name embroidered on it." Riding with Reidlinger, meanwhile, Patsy identifed herself as the mother of the slain Little Miss Colorado. Says Reidlinger, an assistant professor at Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Allied Health Sciences; "I wasn't sure why it was impotant for me to know."

(Page 101): "The Ramseys themselves haven't spoken publicly since their May 1 press conference to a handpicked group of reporters--dubbed an infomercial by some in the media--with one notable exception. On Sept. 2 Patsy was watching Larry King Live. In the wake of Princess Diana's death, King was hosting a celebrity rant against stalkerazzi, and Patsy charged headlong into the fray. "She jumped out of her chair and started calling," Nedra reports, "I said, "What are you going to say?" She said, "The Lord will direct my words." King took her call, and she launched into an on-air diatribe castigating the tabs: "I would ask in the memory of my daughter, JonBenet, America's people's princess--and the beautiful people's princess of Great Britain--to ask everytone worldwide to boycott."

(Page 107): "But Phillips recalls a telling exchange with Nedra: "I asked, "what happens if JonBenet wakes up and says, "Nope, I'm not going to be in a pageant tonight"?' And she said, "We say, "You WILL do it." "Adds Vesta Taylor: "Nedra told me over and over that JonBenet was her Miss America, 'This is my Miss America,' she'd say."

[Pam and Kristine Griffin]1997-12-21: Legacy of JonBenet - For friends, cops, neighbors, tragedy leaves its scars, life will never be the same
(Photo caption: Patrick Davison/Rocky Mountain News "Kristine Griffin, who was JonBenet's modeling coach, still has nightmares about her young friend, said her mother Pam, right. In her dreams, JonBenet tells Griffin, she saw the shoes of the man who killed her Dec. 26, 1996.")

By Lisa Levitt Ryckman
Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer
December 21, 1997


"Judith Phillips has spent much of the last year wondering why the Ramseys have cut her off without a word, after 14 years of friendship that began when they all lived in Atlanta and continued after they all moved to Boulder.

"It was devastating,'' Phillips said of being told by another friend of the Ramseys that she no longer was considered their friend. "To this day, I still don't know what I did.''

For Pam Griffin, a friend of Patsy Ramsey's who designed many of JonBenet's pageant costumes, it has been a year of proving herself a true and loyal friend -- but not without a cost.

This has taken from me a vulnerability I had hoped never to lose,'' said Griffin, who has often found herself as Patsy's lone defender on television talk shows.

A person who always greeted others with a hug, Griffin now tends to keep her distance; trust takes time.

"Now I just don't feel comfortable around a lot of people, and I always felt comfortable around everybody,'' she said. "I resent the tabloid media taking from me the right to be vulnerable if that's what I choose to do. That was something I hoped to keep all my life.''

The endless video loop of JonBenet in pageants, decked out in elaborate costumes designed by Griffin, has brought her some new clients, although she lost more than $30,000 in business from customers who disapproved of her Geraldo appearances. But despite the seemingly universal criticism of kiddie pageantry, the Colorado pageant circuit is booming -- thanks in part to JonBenet.

"It's bigger than it's ever been,'' said LaDonna Griego, who runs All Star Kids, a popular, family oriented pageant system in Colorado.

When JonBenet competed in All Star Kids' state pageant in April 1996, there were 12 children entered. This year, there were 50. Advertisements that used to elicit 300 phone calls now bring in twice that many.

"I think a lot of people didn't know pageants existed in Colorado,'' Griego said of the days before JonBenet's death. "When people call, I tell them they need to come and experience it before you look down on it or think it's wrong.

"Most people come and see, and I end up with their kids competing in the next one.''

Griego's 10-year-old daughter, Breanne, passed her Little Miss Colorado title along to JonBenet in May 1996, and she still happily competes. But JonBenet's death has shaken her.

"It scared my daughter very much,'' LaDonna Griego said. "Now she's sleeping in our bedroom. She still looks over her shoulder.''

The constant criticism of pageantry has wounded Breanne, mostly because it is something she loves.

"Having people trash it really bothers her,'' LaDonna Griego said. "My daughter has been known to go to the grocery store and hide all the Globes on the back shelf.''

Kristine Griffin, JonBenet's 19-year-old modeling coach, sometime-babysitter and dear friend, still suffers from the loss of her protege.

"This has been way too painful for her,'' said her mother, Pam Griffin. "JonBenet just adored Kristine, and the feeling was completely mutual.''

In recent weeks, Kristine has cried at the mention of JonBenet's name on television and has had vivid nightmares about her.

"I need to tell you what happened,'' JonBenet says to Kristine in her dreams. "I don't know who he is, but I saw his shoes.''

"If there was a way to communicate,'' Kristine said, "she might try to do it with me, just because we were so close, and she looked up to me. And maybe she would feel I would be the one she'd want to talk to.''

On Dec. 26, people who knew and loved JonBenet or simply want justice for her will show up at 7 p.m. in front of the Ramsey's old house in Boulder for a candlelight vigil organized by Judith Phillips.

"I have children who need closure on this,'' said Phillips, whose 10-year-old daughter, Lindsey, played with Burke and JonBenet. "It's been very difficult for her, very confusing, very scary.

Now questions haunt Lindsey, painful, unanswerable ones.

"Mommy, who would have done this terrible thing? What was JonBenet feeling? What's it like to die?'' she asks Phillips.

"Mommy, why would anyone murder a little girl who was so nice and so sweet?''

December 21, 1997"


[Patsy Ramsey, June 1998 Interviews]1998-06-23: Patsy Ramsey Interview (Thomas Haney, Trip DeMuth)
(Screen Capture from "CBS 48 Hours - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth - Present also were Patrick Burke and Ellis Armistead June 23, 24, 25, 1998 - Boulder, Colorado


June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (JonBenet's Pageants)

15 PATSY RAMSEY: Just momentary. I
16 remember -- remember laying the little red
17 jumpsuit of JonBenet's over the ironing board,
18 because it had a few spots on it, so I was
19 thinking when I came back from the lake I was
20 going to take that to the dry cleaners, and
21 decided to lay that under there somewhere.
22 TOM HANEY: Was that -- it wasn't
23 something you were going to take to the lake?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No, no, it was
25 something she had worn for a Christmas

1 performance. It was a little Christmas thing.
2 TOM HANEY: When had she worn that?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: She had worn it --
4 well, she wore it, some of her pageant girls
5 performed together in a group, some Christmas
6 songs and things, down in a mall in Denver, she
7 wore it for that.


20 TOM HANEY: Was there anything in
21 this prior behavior that looking back now seems
22 unusual?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, Priscilla was
24 never crazy about me doing this whole pageant
25 with JonBenet, she thought that was just totally

1 unnecessary, because she said you know, it's
2 just not the thing to do. Well, you know, I had
3 grown up doing it, I enjoyed it, I had a lot of
4 friends who had done it. I had very good
5 experience with it. So that's what I brought to
6 the table. My daughter was a performer, she was
7 beautiful, she was outgoing, and flourished in
8 that type of an environment. Daphne was not.
9 You know.
10 So Priscilla would oftentimes say
11 to me, you know, you just, you shouldn't do
12 that, you know, that's not a good thing to
13 happen.
14 I thought, you know, well, you
15 raise your children the way you do and we don't
16 all raise our children the same. So you know,
17 kind of looking back at that and think, you
18 know, did that really get to her or something.
19 I don't know (INAUDIBLE).


18 THOMAS HANEY: How about John with
19 JonBenet, did they do any special things
20 together? Is there anything that she liked dad
21 to take her to do?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she loved her
23 dad to be around all the time. You know, she
24 liked John to carry her up on his shoulders.
25 And they liked to bike-ride. And he went to the

1 pageants. She was always real proud that he was
2 in hardware as she called it, her -- trophy
3 winnings, medals, whatnot.
4 THOMAS HANEY: So he managed to get
5 to quite a few of those or most orall?
7 THOMAS HANEY: Because from what
8 little I understand, it's kind of off-limits for
9 guys, but not -- not a lot of guys there?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: There are a lot of
11 fathers there, brothers.
12 THOMAS HANEY: Really?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, brothers,
14 sisters.


4 THOMAS HANEY: Was JonBenet taking
5 tap lessons at or about this time?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, I believe she
7 was.
8 THOMAS HANEY: Where was she taking
9 them?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Boulder Rec Center.
11 THOMAS HANEY: How often?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Once a week.
13 THOMAS HANEY: Was this part of
14 their -- the Rec Center program, or was it some
15 private person came in?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it was a Rec
17 Center program.
18 THOMAS HANEY: Okay, so it would
19 have been one of the staff, the instructor would
20 have been?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
22 THOMAS HANEY: Do you know who that
23 person was?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: It was Joseph
25 Beaucage.

1 TRIP DeMUTH: Say again?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Joseph Beaucage.
3 THOMAS HANEY: How many kids were
4 in that group?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: About six or eight.
6 THOMAS HANEY: Okay, pretty small
7 group?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding.)
9 THOMAS HANEY: I think you said it
10 was once a week?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
12 THOMAS HANEY: How long had she
13 been going to that?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: I think it started
15 in the fall and they were getting ready for a --
16 you know, had this community dance recital in
17 March, I think.
18 THOMAS HANEY: Did you ever go to
19 the practices, hang around, or were they open to
20 the parents or --
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Um, you mean the
22 lessons?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: We were allowed to
25 stay outside there.

1 THOMAS HANEY: And visit with other
2 parents?
4 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. During those
5 lessons, anything unusual with any of the
6 parents there?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I mean Pinky
8 Barber had her daughter in it, and Gwen Habley
9 (phonetic) was in it and (INAUDIBLE name).
10 And Burke, I had found -- Burke
11 would always go and kind of be hanging out. So
12 I had asked around and found a -- this old guy
13 that taught basketball lessons. So while
14 JonBenet was in there doing tap dancing class,
15 this fellow would work for Burke -- the gym
16 there, 45 minutes.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: What was his name?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Basketball.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Let me throw a name
20 out there for you. Howard Berkes (phonetic)
21 sound right, or do you know a Howard Berkes?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Howard, I believe it
23 was Howard.
24 TRIP DeMUTH: How did you find him?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Um, I think I was

1 sitting there talking with Pinky Barber on the
2 little benches there, outside the classroom, and
3 said, you know, boy, I wish I could find
4 somebody like a high school kid or somebody that
5 would teach -- work with Burke on basketball a
6 little bit. And if I remember, there was this
7 guy on a ladder that was changing light bulbs at
8 the Rec Center, said, "I overheard you." He
9 said, "I have a buddy that used to coach
10 basketball." And -- am I talking too much?
11 VOICE: Tom was five minutes ahead
12 of me on the first one actually. (INAUDIBLE.)
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay. Anyway, this
14 guy said, I met this guy, so he --
15 TRIP DeMUTH: Howard?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: I believe his name
17 was. Old guy, I think kind of (INAUDIBLE).
18 Loved basketball. Loved to teach kids.
19 (Movement in the room made
20 videotape inaudible.)


24 THOMAS HANEY: We touched briefly
25 yesterday on the pageant that JonBenet was in,

1 we talked about the possibility of some parent.
2 Could you talk to us a little bit about how
3 these pageants were set up, how -- what kind of
4 security, if any. You know, how much -- start
5 with how were they publicized? I mean, is it a
6 preset group of people that's involved?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Very small. It's
8 open to anyone, but they don't have a tremendous
9 number of recipients. The first way I learned
10 about it was seeing it listed in Colorado, was
11 through a makeup artist in Denver where I was
12 having my makeup done for a Boulder publication
13 and we were talking about our children. She had
14 two girls and they did the pageants. I said oh,
15 you know, where are they, do you know where they
16 are?
17 And so she told me about her
18 experiences with them. She said she would call
19 or give me the name of someone who did a couple
20 of them. So I subsequently called -- I think
21 the first one I called was -- I can't remember
22 the name. Anyway, there were two different
23 ones. And they had events coming up in the next
24 month or so. So I kind of inquired about it,
25 and went down and entered.

1 THOMAS HANEY: And when would that
2 have been, the first one?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Like spring or --
4 spring of -- spring, spring of '95 or '7? I
5 don't remember.
6 THOMAS HANEY: So you have been
7 involved for about a year and a half then?
9 THOMAS HANEY: That's great. So
10 help me, did they have like a national
11 organization that has like an umbrella over
12 everything?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right, right, this
14 was -- they have a national group, and they
15 would have these local events.
16 THOMAS HANEY: Qualifying or
17 something?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: In a hotel, you
19 know, in a hotel and they would have staging,
20 you know, dressing rooms and all that kind of
21 stuff. And they had different categories, where
22 you could choose to enter whichever categories
23 you would like. You know -- mostly modeling and
24 the reason we did it was because we did the ones
25 that would have talent, like singing, that kind

1 of thing.
2 So then for these, like they have a
3 western category and all the girls would wear
4 like a cute western outfit. And they have
5 sportswear and that would be kind of a dress --
6 you know, so they had these little categories.
7 And they were by age group. JonBenet was in the
8 4-to-6-year-old age group. And 10-to-12. So
9 they weren't competing with anybody much older
10 than they. And you kind of just do that all
11 afternoon, and at the conclusion of the day,
12 they would announce winners in various
13 categories. One of the categories was
14 photography, you know, the portfolios. You
15 know.
16 THOMAS HANEY: Was there like
17 national, local publications, newsletters,
18 things like that that --
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I think they, if you
20 went to one and they got your name, then they
21 would mail you, they always had another next
22 November or whatever.
23 THOMAS HANEY: Had there been any
24 particular newsletter, publication, with a photo
25 or a story about JonBenet that would have been

1 circulated?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, dear. Actually
3 I think one of 'em, I think the American Kids or
4 Royal (INAUDIBLE) had done a brochure and put
5 different kids' pictures on, you know, each time
6 they would announce another event. I think
7 because she had been a winner, her picture was
8 on one of those. That would have gone to -- I
9 mean, I imagine that it just went to people who
10 had previously attended, you know.
11 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Did it give
12 other information about her, just kind of
13 4-to-6?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, right.
15 THOMAS HANEY: Did they, when one
16 of these pageants was held, was there a program
17 that was made up with photos?
19 THOMAS HANEY: Vital information,
20 name, address?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't think it
22 had the address. It would just have their
23 names. You know like here are the 4-to-6
24 contestants, JonBenet, Susie, blah, blah, blah,
25 blah.

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (JonBenet's Pageants)

1 THOMAS HANEY: And that was
2 distributed just at the --
3 PATSY RAMSEY: At the day of the
4 event.
5 THOMAS HANEY: You had said these
6 were open to anybody. Was it like a paid
7 admission or --
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I think they
9 charged a little something to get in. Yeah.
10 But mostly just parents and relatives. Yeah.
11 THOMAS HANEY: You had only been
12 involved in it a short period of time?
14 THOMAS HANEY: So I don't know, did
15 you have a feel for the people who were there,
16 were they the usual folks, I mean it's a -- I am
17 guessing, kind of a small group --
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
19 THOMAS HANEY: -- that regularly
20 competes?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, yeah, you
22 know, the kind of same ones would be in a lot of
23 these events.
24 THOMAS HANEY: But how about some
25 unusual face in the crowd?

1 PATSY RAMSEY: You kind of get to
2 know each other. You know, like, oh, yeah, hi,
3 saw you last time or, you know. Sort of get to
4 know people. It's not that we knew each other
5 very well. We were kind of new, so...
6 TRIP DeMUTH: I am particularly
7 interested in the America Kids performance, and
8 that was only a few days before Christmas,
9 right?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding.)
11 TRIP DeMUTH: A short period before
12 Christmas?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: This was which one,
14 at the mall?
15 TRIP DeMUTH: That's the Southwest
16 Plaza Mall?
18 TRIP DeMUTH: Is that out in the
19 open? Are there walkways at the mall?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: It was an atrium
21 sort of area, in the mall. Where they
22 apparently had activities going on.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: Right. So people
24 that are shopping in the mall can walk by and
25 see the show?

1 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct.
2 TRIP DeMUTH: So that was offered
3 to anybody just walking by?
5 TRIP DeMUTH: So there wasn't any
6 sense of -- there wasn't any security and
7 control of who was observing this particular
8 performance?
10 TRIP DeMUTH: And there was some
11 discussion about signs in the Photo Kids. Do
12 you know what that is, signs and Photo Kids, do
13 you know what that is?
15 TRIP DeMUTH: Are they like
16 brochures or magazines or where there --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding.)
18 TRIP DeMUTH: Was there any
19 information, brochures handed out or displays of
20 any sort at the America Kids performance that
21 identified the participants in any way?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I remember.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: In other words if one
24 was walking by and they saw JonBenet, could they
25 find out who she was and where she lived?

1 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think so,
2 no.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: So I don't know I
4 haven't --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, that was the
7 first time we had done anything like this.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: I am just trying to
9 get a feel for how this was set up. Was there
10 any information at all handed out or displayed
11 about the children at all at the Southwest Plaza
12 Mall?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think so. I
14 don't think it was about the children. I think
15 they made an announcement that if you were
16 interested in more information about the pageant
17 that, I mean, the director was there and you
18 could speak with her or something like that.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Now I know
20 that JonBenet gave some sort of finale, I mean
21 she had some sort of solo singing part?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, a lot of -- I
23 mean there were a dozen of 'em or so there that
24 did --
25 TRIP DeMUTH: A solo?

2 TRIP DeMUTH: And JonBenet did a
3 solo?
5 TRIP DeMUTH: Was there an
6 announcer who announced her name at all when she
7 did a solo?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably so.
9 TRIP DeMUTH: First and last name?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably so. It may
11 have been taped, I don't know. Maybe you could
12 check with them to see if it had been taped.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: How long did the
14 performance last, approximately?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: The whole thing? Or
16 hers?
17 TRIP DeMUTH: The whole thing.
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, the whole thing
19 was probably 45 minutes.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: And the same kind of
21 questions with regard to the beauty pageant at
22 the I-70 and Chambers Road, Holiday Inn that was
23 held on November 1 through 3, of 1996. And I
24 think that's the -- do you remember that one?
25 I-70 and Chambers Road, it's out east, Holiday

1 Inn?
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Was that an open
4 atrium or was that in a private room, that
5 contest??
6 PATSY RAMSEY: That was in a
7 private room, like a ballroom kind of thing.
8 Like a conference room, area.
9 TRIP DeMUTH: Who could come and go
10 to that?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I guess
12 anyone, you know. I think they charged to get
13 in. When was that held?
14 TRIP DeMUTH: November 1 through 3
15 of 1996. November 1996. That was a pageant of
16 some sort, does that ring a bell?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I mean it
18 does, that place rings a bell, but that date
19 doesn't seem right.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: When did you think it
21 was?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the only
23 reason I am having -- I'm thinking about that is
24 because -- because I was trying to think what
25 she wore, and I think she wore the little white

1 dress, that was a new dress for her that I had
2 gotten that I bought from a woman when we
3 attended a pageant over Thanksgiving in Georgia.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay, uh-hum.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: So she wouldn't have
6 had that dress, you know, she wouldn't have had
7 it --
8 TRIP DeMUTH: Later, okay. Okay,
9 well, maybe I have the date wrong. But what I
10 am concerned about is what information was
11 displayed or announced at that pageant, if you
12 recall?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: They introduced them
14 as they come onto the stage, you know, Number 4
15 is whoever, JonBenet, whatever.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: Any brochures?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I recall.
18 TRIP DeMUTH: Was it crowded, were
19 there a lot of people at that pageant?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Not particularly
21 crowded. You know, you look around, you could
22 tell these are such-and-such parents, you know.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: And outside the
24 ballroom, was there any advertisement as to what
25 was going on inside the ballroom?

1 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't believe so.
2 If I remember right, that was kind of a new
3 hotel and there wasn't much going on.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: And was JonBenet also
5 in the Boulder Philharmonic Choir?
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Did they perform?
9 TRIP DeMUTH: And where would they
10 perform?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: They performed --
12 they performed for the Boulder Christmas Pageant
13 or whatever it was, at the Boulder Theatre.
14 There was one there. And they performed --
15 TRIP DeMUTH: And that was open to
16 the public?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Open to the public.
18 And that was performed at the Dairy or something
19 in the fall, the group. In some kind of
20 festival or something.
21 TRIP DeMUTH: Now I don't know, but
22 being part of a choir, I imagine that they don't
23 announce individuals or gave out individuals as
24 part of that program?

1 TRIP DeMUTH: Did JonBenet have any
2 costume-makers besides Pam Griffin?
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Who would those be?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Mary Beth.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: Any others?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, there was one,
8 Emma, was having trouble, you know, finishing
9 some things, so I found a seamstress I believe
10 through a dress -- through a fabric shop, and
11 her, she was in the Federal Complex in kind of
12 the Westminster area.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: And do you recall her
14 name?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: It's on a check
16 somewhere, I could find that out.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you, or speaking
18 of videotapes of the America Kids, or Amerikids,
19 who were the other pageants, or any of these
20 pageants, did you or anybody else videotape
21 those, that you know of?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: They would always
23 have somebody there videotaping and then you
24 bought the tape.
25 THOMAS HANEY: Are there other

1 videotapes out there that you are aware that we
2 might be able to look at, anything that you know
3 of?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably every one
5 that we were in.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: By the people who put
7 on the performance?
9 TRIP DeMUTH: How about the
10 parents, were they videotaping?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I
12 never did. I don't remember seeing it.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: And did JonBenet ever
14 complain of anyone at the pageant, did she ever
15 tell you somebody bothered her?
17 TRIP DeMUTH: Anybody act peculiar
18 around her show?
20 TRIP DeMUTH: And if you could tell
21 us who your photographers were for --
22 PATSY RAMSEY: For her?
23 TRIP DeMUTH: Yes.
24 PATSY RAMSEY: David Haskell, and
25 Randy Simons and Judy Phillips had taken some

1 pictures, but that was before we were really
2 involved in pageants, but then I subsequently
3 used a couple of those for her. Of hers.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: She was also in the
5 Christmas Parade, right?
7 TRIP DeMUTH: She was on a float
8 with a couple of other girls?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, it was a car.
10 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Oh, she was
11 sitting in a car?
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Was her name
14 displayed anywhere?
16 TRIP DeMUTH: And who was she in
17 the car with?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: My car with the
19 driver, it was a BMW, and JonBenet -- and I
20 wasn't there, I was in New York at the time,
21 John and I were out of town, but my parents took
22 her, and there were these little girls from the
23 America Kids.
24 TRIP DeMUTH: So there were maybe
25 four or five girls?

2 TRIP DeMUTH: Sitting up on the
3 back of the Beemer?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, right. I
5 can't remember their names. I would if I saw a
6 picture somewhere.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay, now were all of
8 their names displayed on the side of the car?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I believe so.
10 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.

[John Ramsey, June 1998 Interviews]1998-06-23: John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane
(Screen Capture from "CBS 48 Hours Investigates - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane
Present also were Bryan Morgan, PI David Williams
June 23, 24, 25, 1998 - Boulder, Colorado


June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (JonBenet's Pageants)

25 LOU SMIT: Another thing that I have written

1 down here is: on the 21st and 22nd, actually it
2 was on the 22nd, there was an Amerikids Pageant,
3 and that's what I have listed in my time line. Do
4 you remember JonBenet participating in the pageant
5 just shortly before the Christmas?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, there was one down in
7 Denver that she participated in. I don't remember
8 that name. I think it's the one she got this medal
9 at, this All Stars. But she was in that. Patsy
10 would remember exactly. It was in December some
11 time.
12 LOU SMIT: Did you go to that pageant?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: I went to the talent part
14 which is always what I wanted to support JonBenet
15 on, was the talent part of it. So I'd actually
16 gone. Her talent performance was supposed to be at
17 like 3 o'clock and I got there at three and it was
18 actually ahead of scheduled because she had
19 already done it and she had one off the whole
20 thing for talent. And I walked in and she took
21 this off her neck and put it on my neck. She knew
22 that was important.
23 I had always said, you know, you have fun, you
24 know, don't worry about winning or losing but, you
25 know, work on your talent. So that was always kind

1 of like (INAUDIBLE).
2 LOU SMIT: Did (INAUDIBLE) go to the
3 pageants, John?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I would go to some of them,
5 and I would go to the talent part when she was
6 doing her performance. But I usually wouldn't go
7 to the whole thing. That was a mother/daughter
8 thing they just had. And that, of course, got
9 blown way out of perspective, I believe. It was,
10 what we thought was a private setting among
11 parents and gave JonBenet a chance to develop some
12 self-confidence and presence, and it was nothing
13 more than something she and Patsy enjoyed doing
14 together.
15 LOU SMIT: Who normally went to her pageants?
16 Was it just Patsy and JonBenet or --
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Well sometimes her mother
18 would go. Her sisters would go if they were here.
19 Yeah, just usually Patsy and JonBenet. Because it
20 was usually an all day deal. They'd go in the
21 morning and come back in the afternoon.
22 LOU SMIT: Well, I planned on going a little
23 bit further on in the interview, and that's when
24 we get into the itemized things. Let's kind of go
25 over the pageants a little bit and maybe you can't

1 answer all my questions.
2 But you know there's a lot of times I'm sure
3 JonBenet had certain training and certain people
4 like coached her and certain people that knew her.
5 Photographers that were involved with her. Things
6 of that nature. And, as a detective, that's what I
7 want to find out. And there's a lot of that in the
8 report. Don't get me wrong. The Boulder Police
9 Department really has done a lot of work on that.
10 And I've got a lot of that information.
11 But sometimes there's little pieces of that that
12 you miss. And sometimes you may have some type of
13 an idea or a little thought that maybe somebody
14 was a little off on this. And I'll kind of go into
15 that a little bit later. I'm just more or less
16 trying to generally cover topics at this time.


12 MIKE KANE: I want to back into
13 what happened that day. I think it was John
14 Andrew when he was interviewed he said that --
15 he was talking about the beauty pageants and the
16 possibility of this being a work of a, you know,
17 a jealous parent or whatever. And of course
18 there have been instances where I think there
19 was one that was really well publicized about a
20 cheerleading, problem of cheerleader mom or
21 something like that. What do you think about
22 that?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it's
24 plausible. Neither Patsy nor JonBenet or I took
25 those very seriously. It was just a fun thing

1 for her generally to do. She looked at it as
2 it's a way to build her confidence, and
3 presence, you know, in front of people and those
4 kind of things. But it was, it was just fun.
5 There wasn't any -- whether she won or lost
6 wasn't really a big deal. It was just fun being
7 there. There were parents that were there that
8 were just intent on winning.
9 MIKE KANE: So what do you think
10 about that in terms of a theory of who--
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I mean I
12 thought it was very odd and very unhealthy that
13 they felt that way. That to us wasn't why we
14 were doing that, you know. But in terms of who,
15 you know, we hardly knew those people. Usually
16 it was a very small group. The girls and their
17 parents, grandparents. Some siblings maybe,
18 that was about it.
19 MIKE KANE: Were you ever aware
20 that there were people that really took this
21 pageant stuff seriously, can you give me some
22 examples?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, just when they
24 would announce the winners. Everybody won
25 something, nobody went home without a big trophy

1 and there were always ones that were favorite
2 trophies, and these parents were just like their
3 team just won the Superbowl. I mean they just
4 within by one point, and it was just really
5 tense emotion that they had won. I always
6 thought that was not very healthy.
7 MIKE KANE: Did you witness any of
8 that the times you were there?
10 MIKE KANE: Yeah? Okay. What
11 happened, what kind of atmosphere, what kind of
12 atmosphere would that create?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: It was really
14 nothing other than just, you know, they would
15 say yes, and they would hug each other and you
16 know. That was about it.
17 MIKE KANE: Did you ever in looking
18 back on it, do you think that any -- anybody was
19 so wrapped up in this that I think you said it's
20 plausible. Is it possible?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't think so.
22 Because, well, I don't know. I mean I just
23 don't think that way, but I mean there were
24 girls that had been to 40, 50 pageants, and just
25 every weekend. I mean it was just, that was --

1 JonBenet went once in awhile. Just kind of when
2 they felt like it and they had time.
3 So she wasn't -- and she didn't win
4 that often. She would win the talent thing
5 usually, she was very good, but she very rarely
6 won -- she was young, I mean, know, relative to
7 some of the girls that were there we just didn't
8 take it that serious, and just kind of a fun
9 thing for her to do.
10 And I think had they been one of
11 these every one you know competing, it might
12 have, you know, potentially could have been some
13 hostilities there, because there were some
14 pretty intense emotions going on on the part of
15 the parents.
16 MIKE KANE: Do you know how they
17 got started in that?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: According to
19 Patsy, she was, Patsy was Ms. West Virginia in
20 1977 and she was in the Miss America pageant and
21 periodically she would go back to West Virginia
22 to judge, it was a judge for the Ms. West
23 Virginia pageant and she took, they had a, it
24 must have been 20, 20th anniversary or something
25 like that, I don't know. Some anniversary, they

1 invited her back to -- to be in the program I
2 think and she took JonBenet's and her mom went,
3 and she said JonBenet really enjoyed it, seeing
4 mom up on stage, and she found, apparently
5 JonBenet found a little advertisement in the
6 paper for one of these little pageants, local
7 pageants.
8 MIKE KANE: Later she found it?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: I believe so,
10 JonBenet did. And asked, you know, how -- it
11 was something she wished she could do, or how do
12 we do this. I think that's how that got
13 started.
14 MIKE KANE: Was that a local
15 Boulder paper?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know, it
17 might have been Denver. It had to be a local
18 paper, but I am not sure which it was.
19 MIKE KANE: You say you think
20 that's it happened, why to you can --
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Because I heard Patsy
22 tell that story to somebody, recently had asked
23 MIKE KANE: Okay?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: And I remembered
25 them going to Ms. West Virginia pageant, but I

1 didn't really remember the sequence of how it
2 got started.
3 MIKE KANE: Do you know when this
4 was?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: It might have been
6 1995, that they went back to West Virginia,
7 perhaps.
8 MIKE KANE: And do you know when
9 that first pageant that she was in was?

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (JonBenet's Pageants)

10 JOHN RAMSEY: No. I really --
11 no, I don't remember. You know, probably within
12 six months of that time period, I suppose.
13 MIKE KANE: Did you ever have any
14 discussions with Patsy about before she got
15 involved in these pageants, with just what are
16 they, what do they do, what's the upside,
17 downside?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: No, not really.
19 I mean I had a great deal of respect for the
20 Miss America Pageant, I went to one of those
21 once with her. I was just astounded at the
22 talent level of the girls over there, not just
23 the ten we see on television, but everyone is
24 incredibly talented. They weren't particularly
25 attractive, you know, they were there because

1 they had a very special talent. And they were
2 all extremely talented.
3 I sat through one of the
4 preliminary things where they all do their
5 talent, and I was just astounded. So I was very
6 impressed with that program, and the caliber and
7 the person that got to that level, extremely
8 talented.
9 MIKE KANE: Did you ever see
10 Patsy's performance?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't think so.
12 MIKE KANE: Did you see that
13 outside of the--
15 MIKE KANE: The, there was, and I
16 don't know where I saw this reference to, but
17 there was some -- something that I saw that
18 Patsy had a concern about one of the pageants,
19 the Gingerbread Pageant, something about she
20 didn't like the way it was run. Do you have any
21 information about that?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: No, not really.
23 MIKE KANE: Did you ever discuss
24 with her problems with any of these pageants?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, I mean I knew

1 she was doing it because, you know, she was
2 trying to live for the moment, and she was
3 trying to be as much with her children as she
4 could. All she could, we talked about that, but
5 I could see that was what was going on. And a
6 couple of times I remember saying geez you guys
7 aren't doing another pageant, are you, and I
8 think once they decided not to do it, but that's
9 about the extent of it.
10 MIKE KANE: Why did they decide not
11 to do it?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: I think they had --
13 I think -- I don't remember exactly, but I think
14 they just decided it was too much to be, you
15 know, I think it was out of town or something,
16 and they wanted to stay home with the rest of
17 us.
18 MIKE KANE: Did they did go out of
19 town for some of these, from what I understand?
21 MIKE KANE: Down in Georgia there
22 was--
23 JOHN RAMSEY: There was one in
24 Rome, I think, Georgia. There were a couple of
25 them in Georgia, one in Atlanta, one in Rome,

1 maybe two.
2 MIKE KANE: And the trips down
3 there were specifically for that, obviously
4 family--
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, one I think
6 was, they were down there and they noticed this
7 was one going on, they just went to it. I think
8 that was the one in Rome. It was just kind of
9 an after-thought.
10 MIKE KANE: And how do you remember
11 that, that that was -- I mean did you talk, did
12 Patsy tell you while they were down there --
14 JOHN RAMSEY: It was kind of what
15 I remember, yeah. But they just kind of
16 noticed, they were getting ready to go to a
17 pageant and so they had this one in Rome, they
18 said great.
19 MIKE KANE: This was why they were
20 down there or here?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: No, we were there
22 for a family visit or something, I forget what
23 it was. It was around Thanksgiving time.
24 MIKE KANE: Did she have one of her
25 pageant dresses with her?

1 JOHN RAMSEY: No, probably not.
2 They always threw stuff together at the last
3 minute. They had stuff around sometimes. Might
4 have had something sent up, I don't know.
5 MIKE KANE: Do you know how many
6 that she was in?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: I heard nine,
8 somebody said nine. I heard that on the news.
9 I don't know if that's true or not.
10 MIKE KANE: What did you think as a
11 father seeing your six-year old in makeup?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, I can't say that
13 I liked it. I think -- she had fun with it. It
14 wasn't done -- every little girl, certainly all
15 my little girls liked to put on makeup and dress
16 up, and play dress-up and so this was just kind
17 of an another level of playing dress-up. But I
18 always kind of did a check on was -- you know,
19 did she really want to do that today.
20 And I never said you know, hope you
21 win or just -- just have fun you know, hope you
22 have fun. Sing good, you know, doesn't matter
23 if you're the prettiest. You're the talent,
24 that's really what counts. It became kind of a
25 thing between us, she always said I am there for

1 my talent, dad.
2 But no, I think she drug Patsy to a
3 couple of them that Patsy didn't even want to go
4 to.
5 MIKE KANE: Which one was that?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember. I
7 just, I remember that she was more insistent on
8 going than Patsy.
9 MIKE KANE: Were those instate or
10 out of state?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, I think they
12 were instate, probably. I don't recall.
13 MIKE KANE: The -- did you -- know
14 that there was some videos taken, I mean at your
15 house had some videos that sent over her
16 pageants or--
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, these pageants
18 always took a video of the girls, which in
19 retrospect was a huge mistake, to allow that.
20 MIKE KANE: In what regard?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, because it
22 made national news, you know, they had no ethics
23 in terms of, I mean this was a small little room
24 with parents and girls and they you know,
25 wasn't -- that's all it was. And yet these

1 videos that were made which we shouldn't have
2 allowed were released to the world. And so it
3 looked like we were putting our daughter on
4 display for the world and in fact, we weren't at
5 all.
6 MIKE KANE: Some of the criticism
7 that you had gotten from media and press,
8 public, is that some of these productions with
9 the kids, some of their actions were
10 provocative. What did you feel about that?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: It's in the eyes of
12 a beholder. If you look at a little girl in a
13 dress and think something sexual, you got a
14 problem. That's how I look at it.
15 MIKE KANE: Did it ever concern you
16 that --
17 JOHN RAMSEY: No, because the
18 audience were parents, you know, it was moms and
19 dads, and grammas.
20 LOU SMIT: Usually how big of an
21 audience was it?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, there might be
23 50 people.
24 LOU SMIT: So it's not like
25 hundreds

1 JOHN RAMSEY: No, no, not the ones
2 I was at. Just kids running around, you know,
3 siblings and babies and --
4 LOU SMIT: Any room for perverts
5 in there?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: I could have gotten
7 in there. I could have walked in. It wasn't
8 hard to walk in and sit down and act like a
9 relative, I suppose. I didn't see anybody that
10 didn't look like they were part of the group, in
11 terms of having a child or have children there,
12 it wasn't a stranger sitting over in the corner
13 in a raincoat or something like that, but it
14 would have been possible, certainly, to do that,
15 if you were so inclined.
16 MIKE KANE: Were you aware of Patsy
17 lightening JonBenet's hair? Make it lighter
18 than its natural color?
20 MIKE KANE: There was a -- I don't
21 think it was pag -- it was part of a pageant,
22 there was a, you know, come-as-a-famous-person
23 part of I think it was a local pageant, might
24 have been down in Lakewood, bow tie (phonetic)
25 or something like that, I am not sure. That I

1 read about that she, JonBenet came as Marilyn
2 Monroe, do you remember that?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't.

1998-07-21: Peter Boyles Radio Show 630KHOW

Peter Boyles Radio Show - July 21, 1998
Linda Wilcox Interview


PETER BOYLES: What's the best or most damning story? Did you know them when they were in the pageants? Tell me about the little girl's bedroom.

LINDA WILCOX: About the pageants. I was actually there at the very, very...OH, the best story. Okay, this was right after I left. She was entering her, I saw the application sitting in the kitchen. The very last time I saw JonBenet, the very last time I saw her was...it was on a Monday and they were getting ready for a photo shoot. She went upstairs and got all of her little dresses and costumes, and she had taken her upstairs and I had wanted to talk to Patsy to tell her I wanted the summer off and to let the other person take the whole summer because I didn't want to be there that summer because I was beginning to phase them out at that point and, she took JonBenet upstairs and they did the hair and the makeup and they left. She left this little trail of clothes behind her because she just grabbed them and they were falling. So I was picking up these clothes and accessories and such and she took off and they were gone for hours. and I never saw her again.

PETER BOYLES: They had gone to a pageant?

LINDA WILCOX: No, they had gone to a photo shoot. Remember the pictures where she is in the bathing suit, she's with this little inflatable duck. That was that photo shoot. I saw her the day she was leaving for that shoot. That's the last time I saw her alive.

PETER BOYLES: Did you get the sense that pageants were no part of this, a little part of this, the significance?

LINDA WILCOX: Okay, pageants were very significant. It was a status thing. I heard about it right after they got back that summer, the summer of '95. Suzanne, who had already left their employ because JonBenet, they didn't need her when she started nursery school, or Pre-K in that case. But she was a friend of mine and she had called and asked if she could see the kids because she was still in touch with them. And she had gone to see them, and I was talking to Suzanne that next week and she said, Yeah, I went to see the kids and she was going to take JonBenet to McDonalds because JonBenet loved McDonalds. It was like her favorite thing in the whole world. And Suzanne told me, I just heard the saddest thing. She'd gone and gotten the kids and she said, hey, I'm going to take you guys to McDonalds. JonBenet looked at her stone cold and said, "Eating McDonalds makes you fat."

PETER BOYLES: Didn't you tell me once about what they called her bedroom, the pageant room?

LINDA WILCOX: Well, actually it was Melinda's bedroom. See, her bedroom, when I first got there, this was before the redecorating and JonBenet's room was next to Burkes. And they shared a bathroom. However, because she was um, and then the bedroom that became her bedroom, had belonged to Melinda, it was set up for Melinda and Beth. It had twin beds and it was called the "pink" room because it was mostly done in pink. JonBenet wouldn't sleep in her room because the pink room had a VCR - well a TV/VCR. Well, her dad especially, but sometimes Patsy, she didn't sleep well, would put her to bed with a bottle and a video so she was always sleeping in the other room. So, they named that her room. The small room next to Burke's became Melinda's room. But, of course, Melinda only visited, primarily, I mean, she was in nursing school so she wasn't there much. And from what I got from Suzanne later, became the pageant room. So that was originally her room but she wouldn't sleep in her room because it didn't have a t.v. in it.

PETER BOYLES: Why did they call it the pageant room?

LINDA WILCOX: I assume because that's where they kept all her costumes and her clothes, her crowns and her trophies. But I personally did not see it as such because I had already been gone. Suzanne told me (garbled) I mean this kid was 3 1/2, she was in Nursery school in the morning. She had music lessons, she had dance. The poor kid was so busy every afternoon she was only 3 years old.



[Perfect Murder, Perfect Town]1999-02-18: "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, JonBenet and the City of Boulder"
Written by Lawrence Schiller, February 18, 1999

PMPT Page 97sb

"At midmorning on January 2, LaDonna Griego, a director of All Star Pageants, supplied ABC's Denver affiliate with JonBenet's December 17 ALL Star pageant video. Meanwhile, an amateur video of JonBenet's December 22 shop-

PMPT Page 98sb

ping mall appearance sponsored by America's Royal Miss popped up on local TV. Sunburst Pageants in Atlanta provided another television outlet with its video of JonBenet performing in a white Ziegfield Follies outfit."


"One day in the spring of 1996, Pam Griffin, who had met Patsy" and JonBenet at a pageant, telephoned Kit Andre, a dance instructor she knew. "I've got a great child for you," Pam said.

The following week, Patsy and JonBenet drove to Kit Andre's dance studio in Westminster, twenty minutes southeast of Boulder. Kit had danced in the Broadway companies of Hello, Dolly! and Peter Pan and had ballet credits in Paris and London, including a featured role under Dame Margot Fonteyn.

Patsy told Kit that JonBenet participated in pageants and she herself had been in pageants when she was younger. She'd brought an audiotape of music-"I Want to Be a Cowboy's Sweetheart."


PMPT Page 99sb

"I saw Patsy at the memorial service in Boulder: She was pathetic. She was nothing. She was all gone. And that was the first time I ever saw John Ramsey. He was talking about what had happened. Kind of matter-of-factly. Calmly. Patsy was crying in the chapel aisle--some friend was holding her up. I wasn't going to intrude on her-she was too distraught. But then she came over to me. Of course I went to her and hugged her.

"She was a fabulous child," I told her. "She was a star"

I've looked at that pageant video several times. They made JonBenet look like a clown. Someone else taught her those pseudo-adult movements, the provocative walk, the poses, all of it.

The pageants were Patsy's gig. JonBenet was her alter ego. Patsy had the money, she had the costumes, and she had the kid. She could relive her own pageant thing. You got the picture right there. Patsy didn't have a sense of proportion about how this should fit into her child's life. What I saw on the pageant video. . . you don't do that to a six-year-old.

-Kit Andre

Good Housekeeping Magazine, February 1999 "PRETTY BABIES"
(Author: Hilboldt-Stollev)

"It was in this hotel, in Atlanta, that Thumper Gosney met JonBenet Ramsey, five months before the pretty blond 6-year-old was found murdered in the basement of her Boulder, CO, home on December 26, 1996. The girls were competing in the same age group at the Sunburst International Pageant, though JonBenet was something of a novice, having competed only in local Colorado contests."

Susan first noticed JonBenet in the pageant book. "When you get to a pageant, you look to see who your competition is," Susan says. "I remember saying, 'That's one beautiful child.' So many kids look like cookie-cutter cutouts. Their families hire the same hair and makeup people. But she was naturally gorgeous And she was brand-new."

"JonBenet was transfixed by Thumper's talent routine, Susan remembers, a rendition of a Patsy Cline number entitled "She's Got You." Playing a scorned girlfriend, Thumper yanked various objects including love letters, records, even a pair of junior golf clubs -out of her evening gown. "JonBenet wanted to know how she got all that stuff in her dress," says Susan."

"Thumper and JonBenet became friends and played together. The Gosneys found JonBenet to be sweet, quiet, and unaffected. Patsy Ramsey, her mother, though mostly friendly, at one point became standoffish. The Gosneys were intrigued by JonBenet's black-and-white costumes (most pageant dresses are in vibrant colors), and asked Patsy about her dressmaker. "She gave short answers," Susan recalls, ''as if we were trying to steal her ideas" When JonBenet died, the Gosneys were stunned. Thumper sent flowers to her little friend's funeral. And then everything began to change."

"Pageant outfits are frequently resold and refitted. Although Thumper's Western Wear costume originally Cost $2,200, Susan picked it up from another pageant mother for much less."

"People sell their clothes because their children have outgrown them, or they want a new look," says Faye DeMatteo. Some mothers think that buying a dress from a winner will help their own child's chances."

"JonBenet's mother, Patsy Ramsey, was in the market for some custom made costumes at a local pageant called Dream Star held in Rome, GA, over Thanksgiving weekend 1996. After striking up a conversation with Faye in a restaurant, Patsy asked about the outfits she was selling. Patsy ended up buying Rayanna's fancy white pageant dress, made of silk organza. One month later, JonBenet was buried in it."

"The DeMatteos went to the funeral. "All the girls in JonBenet's group from Dream Star bought an enteral light for her grave," says Faye."

[Perfect Murder, Perfect Town]1999-02-18: "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, JonBenet and the City of Boulder"
Written by Lawrence Schiller, February 18, 1999

PMPT Page 122sb

"Pam Griffin told the police that when she first spotted JonBenet performing at the All Star pageant, she saw that Patsy didn't know how to apply pageant makeup or style her daughter's hair. When JonBenet presented herself in front of the judges, she mouthed oohs and aahs and rolled her eyes in a very amateurish way. Even so, Pam thought she showed promise. Pam, who was there to watch another six-year-old whose costumes she'd designed, introduced herself to Patsy, and they realized they lived only twenty minutes from each other. Pam suggested that she could make a few alterations to the party dress JonBenet was wearing. Patsy accepted the offer. "Do whatever you need to do to make it look better," she said."


"In all, Pam Griffin made half a dozen outfits for JonBenet, some of which cost as much as $600. Several of the outfits were not typical pageant attire but more like theatrical costumes. One day Patsy's mother, Nedra, who occasionally came to Pam's house with Patsy, showed her a photograph of an outfit with marabou and glitter. Nedra said it was just right for "Patsy's doll baby," as she liked to call JonBenet. She thought it would be perfect for the "Anybody from Hollywood" category at the next pageant, where the children could dress as Shirley Temple or Charlie Chaplin or any other star-or, for example, a Las Vegas Ziegfeld Follies showgirl, which Nedra thought would be perfect for JonBenet."


PMPT Page 124sb

"On June 1, 1996, JonBenet appeared in the Royal Miss state pageant in Denver and a month later in the Gingerbread Productions of America pageant, where she won her division title, Mini Supreme, Little Miss Colorado. JonBenet loved hanging out at pageants and playing with the other kids. When Nedra was there, she would give each of the children playing with JonBenet a dollar to buy cookies. Patsy gave presents of hand lotion to all the little girls.

Most pageants include a "Most Photogenic" or "Photo Portfolio" category, where the entrants are judged solely on their photographs. Pasty decided it was time for JonBenet to have a portfolio, and Pam Griffin recommended a photographer, Randy Simons, who could make a six-year-old look twenty. When a pageant favored the seductive look, Pam told Patsy, Simons was the best."


PMPT Page 126sb

"On December 17, JonBenet entered the All Star Kids Christmas pageant at the Airport Holiday Inn outside Denver. Her parents watched her win several titles, including Little Miss Christmas. When it was all over, John carried all her trophies and costumes to the car. It would be her last pageant."

[Perfect Murder, Perfect Town]1999-02-18: "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, JonBenet and the City of Boulder"
Written by Lawrence Schiller, February 18, 1999

PMPT Page 258sb

"Patsy brought more clothes than I had ever seen a parent bring. In the makeup chait; ]onBenet appeared quiet and shy, not scared. She kept looking at her mother.

In the studio, I shot close-ups with a cowboy hat first, then shots with flowers in her hair; which eventually adorned covers all over the world. Before noon, Patsy went out and got pizza for everyone, and then all of us went on location. I photographed the dance outfit with the polka dots next, then the harlequin dance costume. By one o'clock, JonBenet was tired of wearing the tap shoes, but she never complained about the heat or the bright sun. At the residential subdivision Ken Caryl Ranch, I did the Little House on the Prairie dress-that playful shot of JonBenet hiding behind the tree.

The half-day booking become a full day and I got tired faster than JonBenet. At the Wilson White Fence Farm in Lakewood, which has a gazebo and carousel horses, JonBenet played peek-a-boo. She giggled and laughed. The wind began to blow, so I made Patsy my assistant. She held a reflector when we did the Little Red Riding Hood photograph. By then, I'd photographed JonBenet in eleven different outfits. She was a neat kid.

PMPT Page 259sb

It wasn't long before the tabloids were saying that Patsy had forced ]onBenet into some excruciating shots. I never saw anything like that.

I was paid $590 for the day; Patsy gave me a tip of $45. A month later she ordered $960 worth of hand-retouched prints.

-Randy Simons”

[Webbsleuths Community Forum at www.munitrading.com]1999-07-30: Webbsleuths Community Forum (http://munitrading.com)
on thread titled, "Pedophiles/child molesters/beauty pageants"

4. "videos"
Posted by emileigh on 19:59:33 7/29/99
Include Original Message on Reply

I saw a segment on Entertainment Tonight a couple of months back that really caught my attention. There was a detective who knew something about habits of pedophiles and he said that pedophiles sometimes purchase videotapes of pageant events. When a pedophile views one of these tapes, he imagines that the child is performing just for him.

Although Inquiring Mind is right about the audience for the pageant itself being made up of family and friends, there is apparently a blackmarket in kiddie pagaeant videos.

6. "Pedophiles/child molesters/beauty pageants"
Posted by Misty on 13:13:43 7/30/99
Include Original Message on Reply

For everyone's information, let me tell you about pedophiles and child molesters. Although I cannot tell you how I have so much information on these types, let me tell you that the information I have is first hand knowledge. I have spoken with many pedophiles and or child molesters. The reason I am telling you this is because I want to end this pageant stuff. Most certainly, pedophiles are there -- they are there because children are there and they want children. But, it is no different than the sport activities our children participate in everyday. Pedophiles are at our Little League games, our girl scout and boy scout meetings; at our relgious functions -- they seek out places where children will be. If you are a divorced woman with kids, you are at risk. Lots of times peds will seek out these woman, befriend them and guess what? Offer to babysit kids, etc. They'll date the mother to get at the kids.

There are thousands of child porn photos floating around on the web. The peds are becoming quite organized -- they have their own system of communication between themselves to exchange information, photos, videos, etc. Some encode the photos that they pass via the internet to help avoid detection. Lots of the pictures are polaroids they pass on (obviously, they can't go have their roll of film developed).

Beauty pageants are not the sole nesting grounds for pedophiles. A pedophile would much rather have hands-on contact then just an afternoon watching someone on a stage so they tend to migrate toward activities that involve children.

I would be lying to you if I told you that pedophiles don't have pictures of JonBenet in her costumes from the pageants; they do, just as they have pictures of teens in magazines and much, much worse. Pedophiles have a "stash" of photos etc. Some keep extensive records of their pics and their "conquests," so to speak.

They are predators that prey on children. They seduce the child by offering presents, etc.; they connect with kids mentally on a kid-to-kid level.

If you want to protect your kid, teach them about these predators in a way that the child will understand. Let your child know that if someone bothers them to let you know and that you will understand and protect them. Talk to your schools about policy -- teachers meetings kids in out of school settings (say their homes) is suspicious and should not be indulged because you never know.

Just by keeping them out of pageants, you are not gonna keep them away from pedophiles. My 2 cents ....... Misty


2000-02-00: "Afternoon with Judith Phillips, Photographer", Interviewed by Mary Mcardle Suma (Mame)
Transcript provided by Starry assisted by Sassey, Canadiana & Shaggy

Mame: Tell me how you found out? Did she tell you or did you hear it.

Judith Phillips: It was done in an indirect way I don't think that was something that Patsy would disclose publicly to me because she knew me well enough to know, that would be something that I would not approve of so why mention it to me. But when I went to her home to sell her some photographs. They were having the open house for the Christmas Tour of Homes [1994] she looked at some of my slides of the Flatiron sand other pictures. She was interested in buying some so I went there with some of these photographs ready for her to see. I went up to the second floor and Nedra showed me JonBenét's little pink cowboy outfit

Mame: And was that your first?

Judith Phillips: That was my first clue.

Mame: That is the cowboy outfit that we have all seen?

Judith Phillips: Right,right ,right

Mame: were you

Judith Phillips: I was shocked, I said what's that for? Nedra said why Judith were getting JonBenét in some oh just a few pageants. I said your kidding.! She said oh yea she's done some already. In Charlesvoix Were just going do a few. That's when I ask the million dollar question to Nedra. What would happen to JonBenét. You know I was in a position, that it was none of my business to tell them oh my god this is horrible. I was not, it was there home I was not in the position they didn't ask me how I felt about it so I had to say it in an indirect way. That's why I came up with a question. How would you feel if JonBenét at one moment would say I ain't doing this anymore. I'm not going do this.

Mame: And you thought of that then right there at the beginning.

Judith Phillips: Yea

Mame: what did Nedra say?

Judith Phillips: It was a way to get to ask a question that was not out of line but it had the same answer. Yea

Mame: So Nedra's answer was?

Judith Phillips: Oh Judith don't worry about it this is how we would respond to JonBenét and I would say what ould you say to her JonBenét you will do it!

[Death of Innocence]2000-03-18: “Death of Innocence” written by John and Patsy Ramsey

DOI Page 53

"John and I first discovered JonBenet's penchant for performing when she was three years old and participated in her first dance recital, held at the Boulder High School theater. Five little munchkins tap-danced as they sang, "I Want to Hold your Hand" by the Beatles. They were all so cute and knew the routine fairly well (and if they didn't, so what?). But JonBenet just beamed. I was sitting on the front row, and afterward several moms came up to me and said, "Where did JonBenet learn to do that?"


DOI Page 55

"I noticed an ad in the Charlevoix newspaper promoting an upcoming Miss Charlevoix contest for girls of all ages. The two-day event was to be held at the East Jordan high School over the Fourth of July weekend. Pageants were still taking place on high school stages in small towns, just like the contest I'd been in nearly twenty years earlier in West Virginia. The event sounded tailor-made for JonBenet.

The pageant had a patriotic theme since it was held over the Fourth. When we arrived, we learned there were only two other little girls in JonBenet's age group. I remember her marching around the stage waving a little flag amidst twinkling red, white, and blue lights while the emcee sang "Proud to Be an American." She was proud to be part of the show with all the bigger girls. And I was proud of her. She was just beaming. JonBenet won the title of Little Miss Charlevoix, and now she was all fired up to do it again."

[ABC News 20/20]2000-03-17: John and Patsy Ramsey on Barbara Walters ABC News 20/20


BARBARA WALTERS: Let me go through some of the major reasons why people feel you are guilty. The beauty pageants. If we had only seen pictures of JonBenet in in little jeans and a T-shirt… there might not have been the same feeling. But what we saw in still photograph's and in videos was a child dressed like an adult. Very suggestive in many of these pictures. Lipstick, mascara. Moving around on the stage in these beauty pageants. To many people this looks… perverted. Therefore, there's got to be something wrong here.

PATSY RAMSEY: There is something wrong here if someone thinks that looks perverted. JonBenet was an entertainer. She would entertain [LAUGHTER] at the drop of a hat. Little girls dress up and play dress up.

BARBARA WALTERS: You yourself had entered beauty contests.


PATSY RAMSEY: I'm a junior at West Virginia University!

BARBARA WALTERS: So this was, what? Fun for you both to have her do this?

PATSY RAMSEY: It was the most wonderful time of my life. It's not unlike a father who enjoyed playing baseball as a child. He wants to impart that same love of the game with his his son or daughter. And there's just absolutely nothing wrong with it.

BARBARA WALTERS: They called JonBenet a a six year old Lolita, a pint sized sex kitten.

PATSY RAMSEY: The people that that look at these things and see something… perverted. That didn't come from JonBenet. That's coming from the viewer not the child.


[http://today.msnbc.com/]2000-03-22: John and Patsy Ramsey on the Today Show (Part 3)


COURIC: JonBenet was a month shy of her fourth birthday when she entered her first pageant. Her mother initially did it on a lark, but later there were professional photographs, custom-made costumes, and singing and dancing lessons to help her compete. You sort of play down the whole pageant aspect of your lives a bit in the book, saying it was basically nine pageants. But some people might say, that's a lot of pageants for a little six-year-old girl.

Ms. RAMSEY: I don't really say that I downplay it. I say that it was one part of who JonBenet was. But she also liked to play softball, and climb rock climbing walls and ride bicycles and roller skate.

COURIC: What did you think of the whole beauty pageant thing?

Mr. RAMSEY: I used to tell JonBenet, 'Look,' you know, 'This is just about having fun, and this is not about who's the prettiest or who has the prettiest dress on. But, you know, it's--work on your talent. That's what--that's what counts.' And so I would always try to go just to see the talent part.

COURIC: I'm sure you both know by now that this whole beauty pageant aspect of your lives has struck many people, who aren't in this world, as kind of weird. Some would say creepy, in fact, to take a little six-year-old girl and poof up her hair and put makeup on her and dress her up like a showgirl.

Ms. RAMSEY: Some people need to--to get a life. You know, we had a good time.

Mr. RAMSEY: Again, as a father of three girls, I know that little girls like to dress up. They like to put on lipstick. They like to wear mommy's high heels. That--this was just kind of an extension of that. And--and JonBenet had no stage fright.

COURIC: You wrote in the book, John, I was curious about this, that you were dismayed that some of her pageant photos had been doctored with heavy makeup. But, as part of the pageant, she would wear makeup, wouldn't she? I mean, you...

Mr. RAMSEY: Mm-hmm.

Ms. RAMSEY: Sure.

COURIC: Did you highlight her hair even? Or...

Ms. RAMSEY: Sure, yeah. I highlighted it gently to try to blend it a little bit. Yeah.

COURIC: That does seem to be sort of an issue, though, that has--that has influenced public opinion, that you had your daughter compete in beauty pageants.

Ms. RAMSEY: But does that translate, because you went with your daughter on the weekend to a talent show, does that translate to make us murderers? I mean, come on. I don't think so. It was something we enjoyed together. And I don't care what people say about it. It is a precious memory to me. And if she were alive, we'd probably still be doing it.


[jameson's Webbsleuths]2000-07-16: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.org)
"Was the pageant the link?" "

"Was the pageant the link?"
Posted by jams on Jul-16-00 at 02:23 PM (EST)

A question was put to me in another forum.... do I think the pageant was the link between JonBenét and her killer. This was my response and I wonder what you think.

Boy, that's a hard one.

JonBenét was in 9 pageants - and they were all over the country. Could someone have seen her at a pageant and targeted her there? Certainly. She was also at the local mall in a little program promoting pageants and in a local parade just before the murder. She could have caught anyone's eye in any of those places.

I also feel she could have caught someone's eye at the school, church, park or just playing in her front yard.

You asked if I think there is a link between the pageants and her murder.... I have to say there certainly could be, but I don't see any evidence of it. If that was the link, might the killer have taken a tiara to the basement to leave with the body or take with him as a momento? Might he not have referred to that somehow in the ransom note?

I really don't have the answer there - that is on BIG question mark in my mind.


2001-12-11: Patsy Ramsey Deposition (Wolf vs Ramsey Civil suit) (Atlanta, Georgia)

Patsy Ramsey Deposition by Darnay Hoffman - Present also on behalf of the Plaintiff: Evan M. Altman, Esq
On behalf of the Defendants: James C. Rawls, Esq., Eric P. Schroeder, Esq., S. Derek Bauer, Esq., L. Lin Wood, Esq., Brandon Hornsby, Esq., Mahaley C. Paulk, Esq. (Also present at deposition: John Bennett Ramsey)


December 11, 2001 Patsy Ramsey Deposition Wolf vs Ramsey (JonBenet Pageant exposure)

Page 119
24 Q. I am going to give this back to you,
25 and I will take that back.

Page 120
1 I would like to ask you, with respect
2 to the beauty pageants regarding JonBenet Ramsey,
3 were those pageants frequent or infrequent?


Page 121
24 Q. (By Mr. Hoffman) I simply want to
25 know whether or not, as her mother, you felt that

Page 122
1 the level of activity in beauty pageants was high
2 or low, in your mind?
3 A. Low.
4 Q. Did you keep a room in the house
5 known as the pageant room in your home in
6 Boulder?
7 A. No.

December 11, 2001 Patsy Ramsey Deposition Wolf vs Ramsey (JonBenet Pageant exposure)

Page 122
8 Q. Did you keep a room where you kept
9 all your trophies and all of JonBenet's pageant
10 trophies in your home in Boulder?
11 A. She had some in her room, some in
12 the play room and different places.
13 Q. I just have one other question. Did
14 you at any time tell anyone that JonBenet was
15 going to be the next Ms. America, or that she
16 was being groomed to be the next Ms. America?
17 A. Well, she could hardly be the next
18 Ms. America since she was only six years old.
19 Q. I understand. But at the time you
20 were taking her to the beauty pageants, did you
21 at any time say to anybody that you were grooming
22 JonBenet to be the next Ms. America?
23 A. I don't know. I may have said
24 something like that.


[http://www.voy.com/]2003-12-12: VOY Forums(http://www.voy.com/)
"Another "snippet" from the book....."

Author: Rita Johnson
Date Posted: 15:10:48 12/12/03 Fri
"Too many things just didn't add up for me. Number one, two of the most important people who should have been questioned weren't. Gail Turner of Access-Supplies Products Group, Atlanta, and Anna Zapp, the Haute Couture designer who made a number of JonBenét's costumes. Pure and simple, both would have great information that would have furthered the investigation, one way or the other. And, quite possibly, either one could have had a motive to kidnap or murder her. Why weren't they contacted? Jane Stobie, Gail's boss, said she gave Gail's name to every detective and investigator she spoke with. I wonder who else of major importance wasn't interviewed?"?

Anna Zapp and her husband never had children. Gail Turner overheard things at the water cooler that seemed relevant to the investigation. These were just two of the many people I spoke with who questioned why they weren't questioned and wondered what the heck was being done to find JonBenet's killers.....Rita


[jameson's Webbsleuths]2006-01-08: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.org)
"Jon Benet's Exposure"
unregistered user
01-08-06, 04:59 PM (EST)

5. "RE: Jon Benet's Exposure"
In response to message #0

"Upon reading of all the Christmas events of 1996 that the Ramsey's attended...I was wondering if Jon Benet attended the Access Graphics Party."

While the Access Graphics buffet luncheon party was taking place at the Hotel Boulderado (held on Friday, December 20th, according to the Daily Camera), JonBenet and Patsy were at JonBenet's school where JonBenet was performing "Rock Around the Clock" for the students (according to the Rocky Mountain News). I wonder whether this grated on Patsy's nerves. A portion of John's business success, up to and including with Access, was due to Patsy's ability to butter up his clients and shmooze them, something John was not good at. Yet John did not invite Patsy to the Access Graphics party, she was not present, and he never thanked her for helping him make that billion. Giving her a modest household allowance is hardly thanks; you give allowances to children, not someone who could have been co-CEO.

[jameson's Webbsleuths]2006-04-01: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.org)
"Do we know JBR's pageant venue by city"
unregistered user
04-01-06, 05:45 PM (EST)

14. "RE: Texas?"
In response to message #3

"However, JonBenet's pageants were mainly small affairs atteneded largely by family members of the contestants and were not large, commercially-oriented 'cattle calls' that attract very competitive parents who have a 'win at all costs' attitude."

The Sunburst pageant JonBenet attended in 1996 had 200 contestants. If 200 little girls, and at least 400 attending adults, showed up in your yard, would you consider that a "small affair"? Would you categorize as a "small affair" a contest which brags that it "awards over $3,000,000.00 in awards and prizes, including savings bonds, televisions, stereos, dolls, bicycles, and, other toys and prizes on an annual basis"?

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